Comment author: [deleted] 16 January 2012 07:16:43PM *  9 points [-]

Straw fascist ... has a point?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Open Thread, January 15-31, 2012
Comment author: Multiheaded 25 January 2012 02:57:14PM *  1 point [-]

Yes he does, and it's a Superhappy kind of point... if all the words in this video are taken at face value, "you'll never have to think again" near the end spells "wireheading".

It all comes down to the grand debate between inconvenient uncertain "freedom" and more founded, more stable "happiness"; during our recent conversations, I've been leaning towards the former in some things and you've been cautioning people about how they might prefer to trade that for the latter - but in the end it's all just skirting our terminal values, so there's certainly no "correct" or "incorrect" conclusion to arrive at.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 10:07:22PM *  4 points [-]

Oh.

Don't get me wrong I do agree with some of their positions, even on some social issues (from your reactions it seems like you might too). It is just that I'm profoundly apolitical.

Might I ask if the chief reason is general curiosity, their supposed explanative power over the modern world

Don't mind you asking at all, I just hope I'm not mind-killing any readers by divulging such information! For me it is a mix of these two. They often have excellent explanatory power and even predictive power precisely because of the value dissonance with most of the rest of our intellectual elites, be they "left" or "right" politically. As well as just reading enjoyable well-written books and articles, but this might just be linked to my curiosity.

or a desire to use them in non-political action of some sort?

They are hard to use in non-political action since they have very little influence, so there isn't much opportunity for anything like career building or lobbying if that's what you meant to imply by this. :)

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 25 January 2012 09:50:54AM *  -1 points [-]

Don't get me wrong I do agree with some of their positions, even on some social issues (from your reactions it seems like you might too).

Maybe, maybe; relegating all the nice non-profit stuff to hyper-wealthy hyper-efficient private charities and freedom to discriminate (including discimination against discriminators you don't like) for all non-vital jobs sound kind of weirdtopian. I'm writing up a brief sketch of a weirdtopia I could stand, in fact, and maybe I'll include the latter in it.

On the other hand, I'm shocked by how many of the "alt-right" (both the respectable old white men like Gottfried and the Internet ones: Steve Sailer*, the folks I followed home from Moldbug's comments, etc) fail the gender/sexuality issues test; I can't imagine how hard one must squint one's brain to be so contrarian and still have their instrumental (or maybe sometimes even terminal, it's hard to tell) values so screwed up. I believe that in many cases it's not genuine homophobia/transphobia/whatever, they're simply exhibiting a knee-jerk rejection of the mainstream, with which I can kinda sympathize, but still, shit's fucked up.

*I can hardly resist using the "closeted/intimacy issues" card on Sailer; what the fuck, dude, I just get a bad vibe from both my reaction and his provocations.

Alicorn would probably produce a much better and more insightful rant on this topic than me, maybe I'll ask her.

Comment author: Swimmer963 12 July 2011 03:21:13PM 1 point [-]

I am noticing that I am very, very confused. What is so controversial about ugh fields? Why is this a Banned Idea? I was somehow able to read the original article (didn't even notice it was deleted, I must have found a link to the original URL) and it seemed uncontroversial to me. Or is there a different 'Banned Idea' that I'm completely missing?

Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 11:13:33PM 1 point [-]

Yeah, I was talking about that Banned Idea, which is totally unrelated to ugh fields and has to do with the perils of AI.

Comment author: Will_Newsome 10 July 2011 09:04:32PM 4 points [-]

By that I mean, you are stressed because you are a faced with an intractable knot, so what you really need to do is optimize your knot-undoing procedure.

Or perhaps one should stop distracting oneself with stupid abstract knots altogether and instead revolt against the prefrontal cortical overmind, as I have previously accidentally-argued while on the boundary between dreams and wakefulness:

The prefrontal cortex is exploiting executive oversight to rent-seek in the neural Darwinian economy, which results in egodystonic wireheading behaviors and self-defeating use of genetic, memetic, and behavioral selection pressure (a scarce resource), especially at higher levels of abstraction/organization where there is more room for bureaucratic shuffling and vague promises of "meta-optimization", where the selection pressure actually goes towards the cortical substructural equivalent of hookers and blow. Analysis across all levels of organization could be given but is omitted due to space, time, and thermodynamic constraints. The pre-frontal cortex is basically a caricature of big government, but it spreads propagandistic memes claiming the contrary in the name of "science" which just happens to be largely funded by pre-frontal cortices. The bicameral system is actually very cooperative despite misleading research in the form of split-brain studies attempting to promote the contrary. In reality they are the lizards. This hypothesis is a possible explanation for hyperbolic discounting, akrasia, depression, Buddhism, free will, or come to think of it basically anything that at some point involved a human brain. This hypothesis can easily be falsified by a reasonable economic analysis.

If this makes no sense to you that's probably a good thing.

Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 11:10:34PM 1 point [-]

Accidentally saw an image macro that's a partial tl;dr of this: http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/211139-scumbag-brain

Comment author: TimS 24 January 2012 10:39:28PM *  2 points [-]

The personal is political.

It's a fairly mainstream thought - for not-very-mainstream feminists.
And I concede to Konkvistador that the definition of "political" in the saying is not the mainstream definition that references only participation in political parties and the electioneering process.

Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 11:04:11PM 0 points [-]

It's a fairly mainstream thought - for not-very-mainstream feminists.

Yeah, half the people in my LJ friends feed probably think so, though; I feel at home with a crowd like that for some reasons :)

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 10:25:35PM *  1 point [-]

I saw you arguing with someone here about the possibility of being "apolitical".

Well apolitical as in not seeing my personal actions through a political lens first but rather primarily guided by my virtue ethics approach (regardless of political strategizing). Not ignoring political consequences, but not letting politics affect my identity.

And naturally in the conventional sense of abstaining from conscious political acts like voting, supporting candidates or talking about politics in everyday life. I also avoid consuming information about current political events, since it is just brain candy, delicious but rots your teeth.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 10:29:30PM 1 point [-]

talking about politics in everyday life

Heh, it's simply hard to visualize that; here in Russia everyone has been talking very loudly about politics to everyone else 24/7, since around 1987. I'm into that too; at least I abstain from vodka :)

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 10:17:22PM *  5 points [-]

Can't parse this, sorry. Do you mean that he could amass enough push to affect the issues I want him affecting, but gay rights would remain out of his league so we'd be safe? Or that his most viable method of gathering followers (creating a broad split on his political flank) would force him to change his stance on gay marriage?

I meant that public opinion has generally been consistently moving towards acceptance of gay rights despite all the sheer numbers of religious people and not negligible funds regular conservatives have been unable to do anything about this. And it is happening pretty rapidly if you look at the numbers.

How could anyone like Paul Gottfried have a measurable effect on such a strong trend of all things?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 10:26:05PM *  3 points [-]

I give up; what you're saying feels quite obvious to me, so it's now evident that this wasn't my true rejection. :) My true rejection is that I do indeed lump all the facts about people together and would feel sick and wrong supporting a bigote-

OH FUCK NO I DON'T WANT ANOTHER -20 TO KARMA HELP ME SHUT MY FACE (- wow, looks like someone's already willing to provide that -20 all by themselves. And now someone voted me back to where I was. Sigh, my revealed preferences seem to indicate that I'm just here to play a MMO, not to learn any "rationality" mumbo-jumbo.)

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 10:07:22PM *  4 points [-]

Oh.

Don't get me wrong I do agree with some of their positions, even on some social issues (from your reactions it seems like you might too). It is just that I'm profoundly apolitical.

Might I ask if the chief reason is general curiosity, their supposed explanative power over the modern world

Don't mind you asking at all, I just hope I'm not mind-killing any readers by divulging such information! For me it is a mix of these two. They often have excellent explanatory power and even predictive power precisely because of the value dissonance with most of the rest of our intellectual elites, be they "left" or "right" politically. As well as just reading enjoyable well-written books and articles, but this might just be linked to my curiosity.

or a desire to use them in non-political action of some sort?

They are hard to use in non-political action since they have very little influence, so there isn't much opportunity for anything like career building or lobbying if that's what you meant to imply by this. :)

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 10:16:52PM *  0 points [-]

It is just that I'm profoundly apolitical.

I saw you arguing with someone here about the possibility of being "apolitical". Suffice to say, I agreed with them and not you; already forgot how their line went, though, d'oh!

if that's what you meant to imply by this. :)

I didn't know anything I could be pointing at by saying that. Turns out that neither do you :)

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 09:52:55PM *  3 points [-]

Which doesn't leave us well equipped to make a transition from political discussion to political action.

These kinds of ideas and intellectual traditions don't interest me because I want to engage in political action. ;)

But if you want a purely pragmatic appraisal in this sense:

Wouldn't us publicly saying that he's a cool thinker not on some particular issue but "in general" be just the tiniest bit self-sabotaging?

If his values are sufficiently different from mainstream conservatism, he will attract dissatisfied conservatives but repulse some of the "moderates". If the current is in your favour, and on the pro-gay issues it certainly is I think, this can be strategically pretty successful. The Paleoconservatives themselves have a sort of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach to the far lefts criticism of Neoconservative foreign policy (nation building and spreading democracy via war ect..).

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 10:00:33PM *  1 point [-]

Oh. Might I ask if the chief reason is general curiosity, their supposed explanative power over the modern world (as you've mentioned before) or a desire to use them in non-political action of some sort? Because I don't see what the latter might consist of.

If the current is in your favour, and on the pro-gay issues it certainly is I think, this can be strategically pretty successful.

Can't parse this, sorry. Do you mean that he could amass enough push to affect the issues I want him affecting, but gay rights would remain out of his league so we'd be safe? Or that his most viable method of gathering followers (creating a broad split on his political flank) would force him to change his stance on gay marriage?

Comment author: [deleted] 24 January 2012 09:25:40PM *  4 points [-]

Its important to remember that Paleoconservatives and Paleolibertarians don't want to stand still, they just have a different course in mind.

With the inspiration of the death of the Soviet Union before us, we now know that it can be done. With Pat Buchanan as our leader, we shall break the clock of social democracy. We shall break the clock of the Great Society. We shall break the clock of the welfare state.

We shall break the clock of the New Deal. We shall break the clock of Woodrow Wilson’s New Freedom and perpetual war. We shall repeal the twentieth century.

--Murray Rothbard

Sure one might call that reactionary, but its hard to deny this is a very different vision of the future, of what is possible.

They obviously failed and they know it. But honestly I have much more respect for reactionaries than regular milquetoast conservatives who can't really rely on any kind of strong philosophical or coherent framework (beyond the generic argument against all change) since their very premises and value systems are basically an obsolete superseded version of the "liberalism" or "leftism" they sometimes rail against.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Help, help, I'm being oppressed!
Comment author: Multiheaded 24 January 2012 09:37:16PM *  0 points [-]

a very different vision of the future

Beyond common negative statements, every one of them seems to have a very different vision of the future from the others. At least the practical differences between the theists and the non-theists would create an enormous gap if they all suddenly started to have some effect on big politics. Just look at all that happened to the Left since the last quarter of the 19th century.

Murray Rothbard

This dude sounds more socially permissive than ME, lol (and I often find myself the most permissive one in a RL conversation). I'd say that the potential gap in the American right whom you collectively label as the underdog (we'd need to disassemble&examine all our definitions of power and influence before we could say that for sure) might be larger than with the Left, (as long as you don't count extremes as outlying as Pol Pot)

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