Brain Speed Test

-1 Nanashi 10 September 2016 03:01AM

I've been experimenting with various nootropics lately, and wanted some way to have a frame of reference as to whether they work or not. So I put together this little tool:

http://2pih.com/reactiontest/

It's pretty rudimentary for the time being, but I'm definitely open to feedback on 1. Ways to improve it, 2. Different tests you'd like to see. 

 

 

Comment author: Dorikka 05 June 2015 07:36:38PM 1 point [-]

Nanashi, this actually looks really cool. I initially thought that the entire functionality of the tool was contained within the "Job Categories" table and didn't click on the blue links until I had written the below because I expected them to be from Wikipedia or something similarly useless. My top bit of feedback is to make the functionality of the links clear (so at least people know to click on one!) I'm preserving my original thoughts for reference below the dashed line. Current thoughts:

  • Quartiles are good; I would be curious about deciles as well.
  • When I mouseover a line on the salary vs. age graph, the numbers are shown with the lowest salary on top. This is visually disconcerting as the lowest salary line is the bottom-most one on the graph.
  • My point about how many years the data is drawn from (see more detail below) is still relevant.
  • It's a bit confusing that the y-axis on the salary vs. age graph rescales to the occupation, especially since the lines are shown "rising up" from the x-axis. If I see the lines go up, it unintuitively does not mean that the salary is higher.
  • There seem to be lots of duplicate categories at the "Individual Job" level, so less unique rows fit on a screen. Might be an easy way to filter these out.
  • I'm confused whether "entry level" means "no degree" and "post-grad" means "bachelors", or whether entry level is bachelors and post-grad is if one has a graduate or doctorate. (I have seen many jobs that require a bachelors referred to as "entry level".
  • It would be nice to have a link on the "Individual Jobs" level to the definition of each job category used by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. (For example, I don't see why Chief Executives get paid lots more than Top Executives, and a description may resolve my confusion.)

Overall, great work and thanks.


Thanks for doing this; some thoughts:

  • How many years are you taking this from? Larger n makes things more robust but makes the data less relevant to the current job market. Larger n also necessitates inflation adjustment. May want to say if you've done this or not. Fine either way, but good to know so someone doesn't double-adjust or fail to adjust.
  • I'd like to know the salaries of the top and bottom deciles for each job. Yes, data is harder to get, but would be nice to be able to convert competence-delta (relative to others in similar jobs) into an income delta. Perhaps especially useful for people with spiky competence profiles.
  • I don't really know why i would care about the Category ID. It seems to be an unnecessary column. It is also confusing that it starts at 11 (not 1) when I sort in descending order.
  • I initially misinterpreted the "Entry Level Jobs" and "Post-Grad Jobs" as salaries (for long enough that i wondered whether something had gone screwy with your tool.) I don't know if the failure mode of not reading header text is common or not; if so, may want to display units or something in the table for clarity.
Comment author: Nanashi 08 June 2015 03:31:55PM 2 points [-]

Thanks for the feedback! Some specific notes:

Quartiles are good; I would be curious about deciles as well. Unfortunately my primary data source, the US Bureau of Labor & Statistics, only reports 10th percentile, 25th percentile, median, 75th percentile and 90th percentile. I'm working on creating two different views: the "simple" view which just has a few relevant numbers, and the "full" view which has all the relevant data.

When I mouseover a line on the salary vs. age graph, the numbers are shown with the lowest salary on top. This is visually disconcerting as the lowest salary line is the bottom-most one on the graph.

I've gotten a few pieces of feedback on this. This is the default for how the chart generator API I'm using creates the legend. I'll have to go in and update the code on that to reverse them.

It's a bit confusing that the y-axis on the salary vs. age graph rescales to the occupation, especially since the lines are shown "rising up" from the x-axis. If I see the lines go up, it unintuitively does not mean that the salary is higher.

Do you mean like when you are looking at Job A, and then move over to look at Job B? If so, would it be more useful if the graph just consistently showed, say, $20,000 a year as the minimum and, say, $200,000 a year as the maximum, regardless of occupation? (Or any other arbitrary min/max)

There seem to be lots of duplicate categories at the "Individual Job" level, so less unique rows fit on a screen. Might be an easy way to filter these out.

This is an annoying quirk of how the BLS quantifies different positions (i.e. many positions have two separate ID codes but the same underlying data.) Version 2 will purge any redundancies like this.

I'm confused whether "entry level" means "no degree" and "post-grad" means "bachelors"

I could be more clear on this. "Entry level" means "no degree or bachelor" and "post-grad" means "masters or doctorate or equivalent".

It would be nice to have a link on the "Individual Jobs" level to the definition of each job category used by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

This has been updated. See below for further explanation:

How many years are you taking this from? Larger n makes things more robust but makes the data less relevant to the current job market.

This currently pulls from 2014 data. Version two will have the option to pull from several years and also will include a timeline to show whether salaries for a job are trending up or down.

I'd like to know the salaries of the top and bottom deciles for each job.

The "High Salary" and "Low Salary" from the individual job breakdown is actually the 90th decile and 10th decile, respectively. I just didn't scale those according to age in the chart itself.

I don't really know why i would care about the Category ID. It seems to be an unnecessary column. It is also confusing that it starts at 11 (not 1) when I sort in descending order.

Good point. At one point I had intended to use the category ID to link to the BLS's definition of the job. But then I forgot! I have updated this. I should probably have the field itself be something more useful than the ID though.

I initially misinterpreted the "Entry Level Jobs" and "Post-Grad Jobs" as salaries

I've updated that to be more clear

Comment author: Nanashi 02 June 2015 01:20:39PM 2 points [-]

I think that this emphasis on explicit, built-from-scratch mathematical proofs runs counter to your previously expressed suggestion that learning via pattern matching is more efficient than learning via explicit reasoning.

I've found that the emphasis on first principles is often symptomatic of someone who is speaking for their own benefit rather than that of their audience. After all, you're making the unwarranted assumption that A.) your audience wants first principles rather than a practical application, and B.) your audience is, for lack of a better word, too dumb to derive these principles for themselves. It's very easy to convince yourself that you are giving the audience the tools they need to understand what you're saying, when in fact, you're using the audience as a sounding board to help yourself better understand what you're actually saying.

(By the way, I'm using the "royal You" rather than specifically singling out you, Jonah. You caution against this very thing in another post of yours. ).

Comment author: [deleted] 02 June 2015 07:22:51AM 0 points [-]

I was planning on doing similar work for my next, next project. I love what you're doing and agree with the mission (although, I think both the "which career" and the "how to get the career" are about equally taught, and horribly so).

As far as this specific implementation goes, I can tell you what I'd like for my clients. I'd rather have them start with a target income, then only consider jobs above that income... I believe BLS has ways to filter by the salary number, rather than job title, and I think it's essential for what you're trying to do.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Salary charts & Projection tool
Comment author: Nanashi 02 June 2015 09:29:42AM 0 points [-]

It's funny you mention that, that feature is actually built into the tool, it's just I hadn't written a user interface for it yet. I got your message as well, let's set up some time to talk.

The roadblock I came up against was how to return results that are useful. Many desirable-at-face-value careers (e.g. Artists, actors, etc.) have pretty high 90th percentile salaries but low average salaries. Is it useful to show people something that's possible albeit unlikely? One implementation I had toyed with was showing the number of people at that position actually making that kind of money.

Comment author: KnaveOfAllTrades 01 June 2015 07:17:20PM 1 point [-]

I like the graph that shows salary progression at every age. Often career advice just gives you the average entry figure and the average and peak senior figures, which kinda seems predicated upon the 'Career for life' mentality which locks people into professions they dislike. Suggestions, to do or not do with as you see fit, no reply necessary:

Ability to compare multiple jobs simultaneously. Make a note saying the graph will appear once you pick a job, or have it pop up by default on a default job. Center the numerical figures in their cells.

Make the list of jobs and/or the list of categories searchable and associate search keywords to jobs. For example, if I want to find 'Professor', it seems to come under postsecondary teachers, which wouldn't have been something I would have thought of without trawling the list of educators, but I would have found it if I could search by 'Professor' and get the result returned.

'Actuaries', 'Statisticians', 'Mathematicians' seem to have a duplicate entries. Check database for other duplicates by querying for where job names coincide. Have the graph update to say which job you're currently looking at, so the user can be sure it's updated. When hovering on the graph, have the box say e.g. 'Age 40' rather than just '40' to make it obvious what '40' refers to. When hovering on the graph, have the order of the figures in the box correspond to the order on the graph, i.e. give the upper, then median, then bottom figures rather than opposite as it currently is. Track down the figures where you don't have data, or establish that there is not enough data, and let the user know which is the case so they know the provenance of researched or omitted figures.

In general, I think a lot of the time the user will want to come in from an angle of having relatively specific jobs in mind and going from there, rather than working from broad categories to increasingly specific jobs. I'm not immediately sure if or how this should cash out into specific suggestions, though. But maybe something to bear in mind while you're developing the product. Perhaps you could have a mode like the current one and a 'wandering' mode where you start with a specific job then have it compared and linked to related or similar jobs (where the relational and similarity data would have to be put into the database somehow). Maybe a graph interface with nodes?

Comment author: Nanashi 01 June 2015 07:49:31PM 2 points [-]

Ability to compare multiple jobs simultaneously. Make a note saying the graph will appear once you pick a job, or have it pop up by default on a default job. Center the numerical figures in their cells.

One thing I was thinking about on this note was, comparing the "true cost of post-graduate education", in other words, you choose a job that will require X years of post-grad, and then you choose a job that doesn't. And it will compare lifetime earnings.

Make the list of jobs and/or the list of categories searchable and associate search keywords to jobs. For example, if I want to find 'Professor', it seems to come under postsecondary teachers, which wouldn't have been something I would have thought of without trawling the list of educators, but I would have found it if I could search by 'Professor' and get the result returned.

Good idea.

'Actuaries', 'Statisticians', 'Mathematicians' seem to have a duplicate entries. Check database for other duplicates by querying for where job names coincide.

Good catch. From looking it seems like the BLS statistics (which is what this polls from) has duplicate entries that have the same info but separate ID codes. Government efficiency right there. I'll rewrite the script to scrub these out.

Track down the figures where you don't have data, or establish that there is not enough data, and let the user know which is the case so they know the provenance of researched or omitted figures.

What specifically did you mean here?

t. Perhaps you could have a mode like the current one and a 'wandering' mode where you start with a specific job then have it compared and linked to related or similar jobs

I think the big problem with trying to determine "related jobs" is that, more often than not, in the actual job market, the relationship between similar jobs is in name only. If I'm trying to hire someone for sales, someone who has a lot of marketing experience probably isn't going to be a great candidate, even though "sales" and "marketing" seem to go hand-in-hand.

Comment author: James_Miller 01 June 2015 06:35:49PM 0 points [-]

In the United States the kind of job you can get is strongly correlated with the college you graduate from and to a lesser extend your college grades, so high school students (especially before they determine what college they will go to) face enormous uncertainty over their future job market value.

Comment author: Nanashi 01 June 2015 06:49:13PM *  0 points [-]

In my experience, at the under-grad level, the college you go to doesn't really matter (and especially your grades). I know that when I am hiring, I personally spend exactly 2 seconds looking at what school someone went to (and exactly 0 seconds looking at their grades).

It may be different at the post-graduate level though.

Comment author: Vaniver 01 June 2015 04:40:35PM *  8 points [-]

Are you familiar with 80,000 Hours, which provides career guidance with an emphasis on earning power?

Comment author: Nanashi 01 June 2015 06:25:47PM 1 point [-]

I haven't heard of them before but that looks like good stuff.

Comment author: James_Miller 01 June 2015 06:12:37PM *  2 points [-]

I don't think colleges put anywhere near enough time and resources into, as you say, "how to get a job on your chosen field." Professors don't have the background to really help job-seeking students who don't want to be professors. Just telling students the basics of networking could be of great value to many of them. Summer internships are a huge deal now for students who want to go into business. Work visa issues can be a big deal for many international students. I'm an econ professor at Smith College.

Comment author: Nanashi 01 June 2015 06:25:37PM 1 point [-]

I'm thinking more at the high school level, but I think you are correct.

Salary charts & Projection tool

7 Nanashi 01 June 2015 04:37PM

Some quick background, I am putting together a non-profit whose goal is to provide objective, rational career guidance to high school/college students, with the aim to solve what I see as a pretty big problem in the American educational system: our current career guidance is more focused on how to get a job on your chosen field, rather than what field should you choose in the first place?

Mid-ranged goals involve setting up programs where students can "shadow" people who work in a field they are interested in so that they can see what those types of jobs actually entail. Short-term, the goal is to put together some informational resources that students can use to help guide their decision a little more rationally.

One of these information resources is a database that uses data pulled from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, to tell you 

  1. What range of salaries can you expect in a given career?
  2. What salary you can expect at any given age in a career.
  3. How many jobs are actually out there in any given career?

The beta-version of that database can be found here. First and foremost, I'm hoping that this can be helpful or useful to any of the high-school or college-aged LWers out there. Secondly, I'm looking for feedback as to how I can make the tool more useful. (Obviously the design is incredibly bare-bones). Specifically:
  • Is there any additional information you would find useful when trying to determine a career? 
  • Are there any careers/categories of careers that you can't seem to find on this list?
  • Is any part of this information confusing or poorly explained? 
  • Anything else you can think that might improve this.

Comment author: [deleted] 31 May 2015 04:48:26AM 9 points [-]

It is a truism that learning takes time. The issue is that we punish people for taking time to learn thoroughly. Our training/education regimes are largely designed to turn out large numbers of semi-numerate engineers in a short time rather than to produce any number of fluent scientists of any period of time.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Learning takes a long time
Comment author: Nanashi 31 May 2015 10:00:41AM 5 points [-]

I think that's because, when looking at the aggregate of society, it's more efficient to bring people up to the level of semi-proficiency than it is to bring them to the level of expertise. If you have 100,000 hours of training to allocate, you get more bang for your buck to train 50 people to 80% proficiency than it is to train 10 people to the level of an expert.

The flaw, of course, is that "training hours" isn't a finite, discrete resource. Any individual can opt to spend additional time of their own accord if they are truly passionate. The problem is, at the points in our lives when we have the most free time to spend improving ourselves (read: high school), we also have the least idea of what the hell we want to do with it.

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