Comment author: helltank 10 November 2014 02:41:43AM 11 points [-]

I went through an entire evening outing and did not drop the ball once socially- in every event, I successfully carried out all the steps of social interaction, from perfectly(or so I'd like to think) mimicking empathy, adopting correct facial expressions and words. I'd like to think that this is a huge step forward in my social training. One of the people that I went on an outing with even commented that he thought my social skills were improving greatly.

Comment author: Natha 14 November 2014 04:29:09AM *  0 points [-]

Awesome! If what you're dealing with is social anxiety, then you might find this blogpost helpful (I know I did). It sounds like it may be something more serious; if so, all the more reason for congratulations!

Comment author: Natha 14 November 2014 04:02:37AM *  1 point [-]

Aside from painting "LessWrong types" in really broad, unflattering strokes, I thought the author made several good points. Note though that I am a ~15 year vegetarian (and sometime vegan) myself and I definitely identify with his argument, so there's the opportunity for subjective validation to creep in. I also find many perference-utlitarian viewpoints persuasive, though I wouldn't yet identify as one.

I think the 20% thing and the 1-in-20 thing were just hypothetical, so we shouldn't get too hung up on them; I think his case is just as strong without any numbers. There is some uncertainty about the continuum of animal cognition and how it relates to their capacity to suffer.

My own personal voice-inside-my-head reasons for vegetarianism can be summarized as follows: "I am an animal, but a unique kind of animal who can understand what it means to feel pain and to die and who doesn't want that to happen to himself or to any other animals. My unique kind of animal can also live a happy, healthy life at very little personal expense without causing other animals to feel pain or to die." Thus, Rob's first 4 premises (particularly 2 and 3) resonated with me.

I don't believe other animals, even other mammals, have anything like human consciousness. Nor do I believe they should be accorded human rights. But I know that at the end of the day, biologically I am a mammal; if you're warm-blooded and you've got hair and a neocortex, then I'm really going to avoid hurting/killing you. If you have a spine and a pulse, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Comment author: Natha 13 November 2014 07:35:38PM *  2 points [-]

PSA: coincidentally, David Dunning (an author in every study I mention above) is currently doing a Reddit AMA. I did not plan this, but if you have any questions for him, he's all ears!

Comment author: Lumifer 13 November 2014 03:05:14AM *  2 points [-]

Don't you mean "Others' predictions of your performance are usually more accurate"?

And your last paper and graph are rather well-known by now.

Comment author: Natha 13 November 2014 03:10:01AM *  7 points [-]

Ah, yes that's much better isn't it. Am I allowed to change this? Sorry for being such a flagrant newcomer; it seems like I really need to tighten up my language.

EDIT: I've given it some thought and I think it has something to do with being active on Reddit, where there's lots of incentive to sensationalize your posts. I will be mindful of this going forward.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 13 November 2014 02:31:39AM *  4 points [-]

Depicted below is the general relationship between the way we actually perform and the way we predict we will perform:

It looks to me like this is a copy of the graph summarizing the results of one of the four studies (specifically, the third) in the cited paper. It is not accurate to describe it as "the general relationship". The other three studies don't show the same curve, although they all do show the bottom quartile predicting their ability as above the median but below the top quartile.

One thing I've always found suspicious about this paper: Why report quartiles? The four studies had n=65, 45, 84, 140 respectively. Why choose to bin this large number of participants into only four bins? That seems unusually low resolution. Why quartiles and not quintiles or deciles?

Comment author: Natha 13 November 2014 03:01:40AM *  1 point [-]

You're exactly right, sorry. I'll keep the picture because I think it suffices to illustrate the trend, but I'll update my description for clarity. Here are the other summary graphs for studies 1, 2, and 4

ETA: Strangely apropos this post, David Dunning is doing a Reddit AMA right now; I should go ask him why he and Kruger (1999) chose to report quartiles!

Others' predictions of your performance are usually more accurate

18 Natha 13 November 2014 02:17AM
Sorry if the positive illusions are old hat, but I searched and couldn't find any mention of this peer prediction stuff! If nothing else, I think the findings provide a quick heuristic for getting more reliable predictions of your future behavior - just poll a nearby friend!


Peer predictions are often superior to self-predictions. People, when predicting their own future outcomes, tend to give far too much weight to their intentions, goals, plans, desires, etc., and far to little consideration to the way things have turned out for them in the past. As Henry Wadsworth Longfellow observed,

"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done"


...and we are way less accurate for it! A recent study by Helzer and Dunning (2012) took Cornell undergraduates and had them each predict their next exam grade, and then had an anonymous peer predict it too, based solely on their score on the previous exam; despite the fact that the peer had such limited information (while the subjects have presumably perfect information about themselves), the peer predictions, based solely on the subjects' past performance, were much more accurate predictors of subjects' actual exam scores.

In another part of the study, participants were paired-up (remotely, anonymously) and rewarded for accurately predicting each other's scores. Peers were allowed to give just one piece of information to help their partner predict their score; further, they were allowed to request just one piece of information from their partner to aid them in predicting their partner's score. Across the board, participants would give information about their "aspiration level" (their own ideal "target" score) to the peer predicting them, but would be far less likely to ask for that information if they were trying to predict a peer; overwhelmingly, they would ask for information about the participant's past behavior (i.e., their score on the previous exam), finding this information to be more indicative of future performance. The authors note,

There are many reasons to use past behavior as an indicator of future action and achievement. The overarching reason is that past behavior is a product of a number of causal variables that sum up to produce it—and that suite of causal variables in the same proportion is likely to be in play for any future behavior in a similar context.


They go on to say, rather poetically I think, that they have observed "the triumph of hope over experience." People situate their representations of self more in what they strive to be rather than in who they have already been (or indeed, who they are), whereas they represent others more in terms of typical or average behavior (Williams, Gilovich, & Dunning, 2012).

I found a figure I want to include from another interesting article (Kruger & Dunning, 1999); it illustrates this "better than average effect" rather well. Depicted below is an graph summarizing the results of study #3 (perceived grammar ability and test performance as a function of actual test performance):


Along the abscissa, you've got reality: the quartiles represent scores on a test of grammatical ability. The vertical axis, with decile ticks, corresponds to the same peoples' self-predicted ability and test scores. Curiously, while no one is ready to admit mediocrity, neither is anyone readily forecasting perfection; the clear sweet spot is 65-70%. Those in the third quartile seem most accurate in their estimations while those the highest quartile often sold themselves short, underpredicting their actual achievement on average. Notice too that the widest reality/prediction gap is for those the lowest quartile.

In response to ...
Comment author: Vulture 12 November 2014 01:32:39AM *  9 points [-]

This is the most ludicrous slander I have ever read. I also have no idea what the point is supposed to be. It's not funny, it's not remotely believable, it doesn't seem to be making any kind of larger point, and it looks like a really slapdash job anyway. I can't figure out why anyone would bother making this.

Edit: Whoops, I didn't read to the end. Apparently this is an attempt at blackmail. I still don't see what the point is, though, since MIRI will hardly stop fundraising just to prevent this obviously fabricated "leak". Maybe the creator of the page is hoping that rationalists will conclude that there is some truth to the accusations on the basis that they wouldn't bother to blackmail MIRI with them if they were false? But if that was the goal, you'd think they could come up with more plausible or creative accusations.

In response to comment by Vulture on ...
Comment author: Natha 12 November 2014 03:41:27AM *  2 points [-]

It's poorly written too, like some grade school gag. If it's meant to be taken seriously, it is pretty amateurish...

Comment author: iarwain1 03 November 2014 03:30:04PM *  33 points [-]

I just finished an entire difficult textbook with (virtually) all the problems, on my own. I think that might be a first for me. The textbook is Art of Problem Solving Introduction to Algebra. I know that finally completing introductory algebra many years out of high school doesn't sound like a big deal for most LW members, but for me it was a big and difficult step.

Working through this textbook took me about seven months, with a few scheduled breaks and a longer break for my third child being born.

Final grade (= average grade for all the chapters, using a grading system I made up): 93.7 out of 114.8 possible.

A big thank you to zedzed for offering to impose artificial deadlines on me for each chapter, and for giving me occasional help and advice. I would definitely not have been able to do it otherwise. Everybody please upvote zedzed's confirmation below for helping out a fellow LWer.

If anybody else would like someone to set up a system of artificial deadlines for them then please PM me. For me at least such a system seems to be the best anti-akrasia tool I've ever found, short of having real deadlines.

Comment author: Natha 12 November 2014 03:17:07AM *  2 points [-]

Hey, terrific! Did you enjoy the book itself? I really liked AoPS series; I remember getting a whole lot out of Introduction to Counting and Probability. I distinctly remember thinking over and over, why didn't they tell me this in school!

I'm not sure what your ultimate goals are, and you're probably already familiar with the online AMC8/10/12 and Olympiad problem banks that others have mentioned; if not, I couldn't recommend them more highly for bringing newly learned skills to bear on novel problems. At one point, I worked through all the AMC8, then all of the AMC10. It became very addictive!

Also, perhaps more recreationally, the MAA does a question of the day called Minute Math, which is always good for a quick diversion.

Comment author: CronoDAS 11 November 2014 06:35:32AM 1 point [-]

Is the Minerva program recognized by any accrediting body?

Comment author: Natha 11 November 2014 01:23:42PM *  0 points [-]

I think just 3 of the degree programs they offer have been accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC).

Also, very interesting observation about the similarity to video games; this makes sense, especially in light of the gamification craze.

Comment author: Natha 11 November 2014 01:21:42AM *  4 points [-]

I recently moved to a moved to a big US city and promptly sold my car. I can't stand the stress of driving, parking, or maintaining a car in the city and I am also extremely frugal.

My preferred method of getting around is to ride my bicycle, but there are important considerations (bike lanes and infrastructure, weather, potentially getting really sweaty). I've had the same $250 bicycle since 2007 and it requires very minimal upkeep. I've replaced the tires once and gotten a few tune-ups here and there... probably another $250 in the past 7 years, averaging 3 rides/week.

I like cycling because it forces me to get a little bit of exercise every day; setting aside separate time for exercise always feels like such a waste, and I like making my commute do double duty as fitness. Also, if something breaks on a bike it is usually pretty obvious, cheap, and easy to fix. I like that am not beholden to any specialist/mechanic.

If I need to go far, I will ride it to the nearest bus stop, stow the bike on the front of the bus, and hop off the bus near enough to pedal to my destination without breaking a sweat. The bus is great too; I see all sorts of people I wouldn't otherwise know existed, and I use the transit time for leisure activities (usually reading).

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