Comment author: Bugmaster 29 November 2012 03:09:32AM 0 points [-]

I don't understand what (1) means, can you explain ?

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 29 November 2012 04:42:30AM *  4 points [-]

The three interpretations I mean are:

  • (1) People's behavior is accurately predicted by modeling them as status-maximizing agents.
  • (2) People's subjective experience of well-being is accurately predicted by modeling it as proportional to status.
  • (3) A person is well-off, in the sense that an altruist should care about, in proportion to their status.

Is that clearer?

Comment author: TimS 28 November 2012 02:43:05PM 3 points [-]

Why do we think that suffering is a necessary feature of human experience? Suffering's presence throughout human history can be more easily explained by society's unwillingness or inability (lack of appropriate knowledge) to take necessary steps, rather than the thesis that humans must suffer to be human.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 29 November 2012 02:29:55AM 3 points [-]

"Society" is not an agent.

Comment author: Bugmaster 29 November 2012 02:04:27AM 2 points [-]

Again, as far as I understand, Konkvistador believes that humans are driven primarily by their desire to achieve a higher status, and that this is in fact one of our terminal goals. If we assume that this is true, then I believe my comments are correct.

Is that actually true, though ? Are humans driven primarily by their desire to achieve a higher status (in addition to the desires directly related to physical survival, of course) ? I don't know, but maybe Konkvistador has some evidence for the proposition -- assuming, of course, that I'm not misinterpreting his viewpoint.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 29 November 2012 02:23:26AM *  7 points [-]

Konkvistador believes that humans are driven primarily by their desire to achieve a higher status, and that this is in fact one of our terminal goals.

This needs to be considered separately as (1) a descriptive statement about actions (2) a descriptive statement about subjective experience (3) a normative statement about the utilitarian good. It seems much more accurate as (1) than (2) or (3), and I think Konkvistador means it as (1); meanwhile, statements about "quality of life" could mean (2) or (3) but not (1).

Comment author: Bugmaster 28 November 2012 07:44:55PM 0 points [-]

That is true, but narrowing the status differences would severely penalize anyone whose status is higher than the minimum (or possibly only those with above-average status, depending on the scale you're using). If we measure quality of life solely in terms of status, then such an action would be undesirable.

Granted, if we include other measures in our calculation, then it all depends on what weights we place on each measure, status included.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 29 November 2012 01:16:00AM *  4 points [-]

If we measure quality of life solely in terms of status

Is there a reason we might want to do this? It feels like your comments in this thread unjustifiably privilege this model.

In response to Logical Pinpointing
Comment author: incariol 11 November 2012 12:21:37AM *  6 points [-]

So this is where (one of the inspirations for) Eliezer's meta-ethics comes from! :)

A quick refresher from a former comment:

Cognitivism: Yes, moral propositions have truth-value, but not all people are talking about the same facts when they use words like "should", thus creating the illusion of disagreement.

... and now from this post:

Some people might dispute whether unicorns must be attracted to virgins, but since unicorns aren't real - since we aren't locating them within our universe using a causal reference - they'd just be talking about different models, rather than arguing about the properties of a known, fixed mathematical model.

(This little realization also holds a key to resolving the last meditation, I suppose.)

I've heard people say the meta-ethics sequence was more or less a failure since not that many people really understood it, but if these last posts were taken as a perequisite reading, it would be at least a bit easier to understand where Eliezer's coming from.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 12 November 2012 08:09:39PM 1 point [-]

I've heard people say the meta-ethics sequence was more or less a failure since not that many people really understood it, but if these last posts were taken as a perequisite reading, it would be at least a bit easier to understand where Eliezer's coming from.

Agreed, and disappointed that this comment was downvoted.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 07 November 2012 07:56:04AM *  18 points [-]

"Because they were hypocrites," Finkle-McGraw said, after igniting his calabash and shooting a few tremendous fountains of smoke into the air, "the Victorians were despised in the late twentieth century. Many of the persons who held such opinions were, of course, guilty of the most nefandous conduct themselves, and yet saw no paradox in holding such views because they were not hypocrites themselves-they took no moral stances and lived by none."

"So they were morally superior to the Victorians-" Major Napier said, still a bit snowed under. "-even though-in fact, because-they had no morals at all." There was a moment of silent, bewildered head-shaking around the copper table.

"We take a somewhat different view of hypocrisy," Finkle-McGraw continued. "In the late-twentieth-century Weltanschauung, a hypocrite was someone who espoused high moral views as part of a planned campaign of deception-he never held these beliefs sincerely and routinely violated them in privacy. Of course, most hypocrites are not like that. Most of the time it's a spirit-is-willing, flesh-is-weak sort of thing."

"That we occasionally violate our own stated moral code," Major Napier said, working it through, "does not imply that we are insincere in espousing that code."

"Of course not," Finkle-McGraw said. "It's perfectly obvious, really. No one ever said that it was easy to hew to a strict code of conduct. Really, the difficulties involved-the missteps we make along the way are what make it interesting. The internal, and eternal, struggle, between our base impulses and the rigorous demands of our own moral system is quintessentially human. It is how we conduct ourselves in that struggle that determines how we may in time be judged by a higher power."

— Neal Stephenson, The Diamond Age

In response to Less Wrong Parents
Comment author: chaosmosis 02 November 2012 06:28:03PM *  5 points [-]

the NYC LW/OB community had two babies and is expecting a third

This sounded a bit cultish. Babies aren't the property of LessWrong.

members of the NYC LW/OC have had two babies, and another is expecting a third

Sounds better.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 04 November 2012 01:40:23AM *  3 points [-]

Keep in mind that the NYC community is a physical tight-knit community in a way that LW or even a swing dancing club isn't. (I live in SF and expect a great deal of cooperative parenting if and when the LWers there start breeding en masse.)

In response to comment by [deleted] on 2012 Less Wrong Census/Survey
Comment author: Rubix 04 November 2012 01:02:33AM *  4 points [-]

I scored really low on everything - in fact, I got 4th percentile Agreeableness. Not over-correcting for self-importance is hard!

ETA: I do actually have reason to believe that I'm not an extremely disagreeable person; I'm concerned that failing to acknowledge that or present those reasons made it look like I failed to consider that possibility.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 04 November 2012 01:07:10AM *  3 points [-]

I got similarly extreme results on C/E/A (not that I disagree with the direction) and lower-than-casually-expected O: link

(Edited to add: Very amused by the Myers-Briggs question "Your actions are frequently influenced by emotions". Um....)

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 04 November 2012 12:39:48AM 29 points [-]

The "income" question doesn't state pre- or post-tax — you should say you intend one or the other.

In response to comment by Epiphany on Chaotic Inversion
Comment author: MBlume 10 October 2012 06:48:50AM 3 points [-]

a 15 minute break every 90 minutes

People can work for 90 minutes?! Like... without stopping?

In response to comment by MBlume on Chaotic Inversion
Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 10 October 2012 07:00:21AM 1 point [-]

You've never flow-stated on a piece of code for 90 minutes? (I'm not absolutely sure I ever have, but I'd be surprised if not.)

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