Comment author: JoshuaZ 21 September 2011 04:11:57AM 1 point [-]

Some of the consciousness causes collapse people would claim that you intended to cause that entanglement. (If you are thinking this sounds like an attempt to make their claims not falsifiable, I'd be inclined to agree.)

Comment author: Owen 21 September 2011 04:21:11AM 1 point [-]

I can intentionally do lots of things, some of which cause entanglement and "collapse", and some of which don't. I'd say to them that it still seems like the conscious intent isn't what's important.

If you'd like to substitute a better picture for the layperson, I'd go with "disturbing the system causes collapse". (Where "disturb" is really just a nontechnical way of saying "entangle with the environment.") Then it's clear that conscious observation (which involves disturbing the system somehow to get your measurement) will cause (apparent) collapse, but doesn't do so in a special depends-on-consciousness way. And if they want a precise definition of "disturb", you can get into the not-too-difficult math of superposition and entanglement.

Comment author: KPier 21 September 2011 03:51:25AM *  4 points [-]

I've been debating the validity of reductionism with a friend for a while, and today he presented me with an article (won't link it, it's a waste of your time) arguing that the consciousness-causes-collapse interpretation of QM proves that consciousness is ontologically fundamental/epiphenomenal/ect..

To which I responded: "Yeah, but consciousness-causes-collapse is wrong."

And then realized that the reasons I have rejected it are all reductionist in nature. So he pointed out, fairly, that I was begging the question. And unfortunately, I'm not sufficiently familiar with the literature on QM to point him to an explanation. Does anyone know an explanation of reasons to reject consciousness-causes-collapse that isn't explicitly predicated on reductionism?

Comment author: Owen 21 September 2011 04:09:10AM 3 points [-]

Perhaps that extremely simple systems, that no one would consider conscious, can also "cause collapse"? It doesn't take much: just entangle the superposed state with another particle - then when you measure, canceling can't occur and you perceive a randomly collapsed wavefunction. The important thing is the entangling, not the fact that you're conscious: measuring a superposed state (i.e. entangling your mind with it) will do the trick, but it's entirely unnecessary.

I used to believe the consciousness-causes-collapse idea, and it was quite a relief when I realized it doesn't work like that.

Comment author: Owen 20 September 2011 07:48:47PM 1 point [-]

Upvoted because I like to see this kind of brainstorming, although I feel like the "strongly care about" criterion is a bit ad hoc and maybe unnecessary. To me it sounds more correct to say that Mr. IHJ doesn't care about his future selves, not that he doesn't have any.

In response to comment by rysade on I hate TL;DR
Comment author: MarkusRamikin 20 September 2011 04:11:48PM *  4 points [-]

Could someone please explain why this comment by rysade got downvoted while lukeprog got 9 upvotes for saying [what appears to me as] much the same thing? I am confused.

EDIT: Thank you for the answers.

In response to comment by MarkusRamikin on I hate TL;DR
Comment author: Owen 20 September 2011 04:57:32PM *  6 points [-]

Upvoted for noticing your confusion. At least two possible reasons come to mind:

Explanation 1: Luke has made many solid contributions in the past, and such contributors' comments tend to receive more upvotes than others' do, just by a kind of halo effect: "Luke's other posts are good, so he's a good rationalist, so this comment of his must be good too." I don't know how true this is: I've heard the idea suggested by other people here, but I've also seen several examples of top contributors receiving well-deserved downvotes in some cases.

Explanation 2: Luke's comment is genuinely more deserving of upvotes, since rysade's comment uses phrases like "I think" and "subtly changing", which downplay commitment and measurability, respectively, while Luke's comment indicates an explicit change he has already made. Again, I can't really speak for the people who upvoted Luke's comment (not even being one of them myself), but it seems plausible that this is at least one force at work in the disparity.

I don't know how much of each of these two hypotheses is truly at work here, or if there's something else going on that I've missed. (It's easy to come up with what are in my opinion less likely scenarios: Luke has made several phantom accounts to upvote his own comments and/or downvote others' similar comments, or someone else holds a grudge against rysade, etc.)

Comment author: Owen 15 August 2011 04:24:06PM 5 points [-]

I'm about 15% through the lessons on Gregg shorthand here: http://gregg.angelfishy.net/ (This is my first comment, so I'm not sure how to do links. If someone would to point me to instructions, I'd be grateful.)

Mostly this comes under the "productive entertainment" heading, like knitting, but there's the possibility that knowing shorthand will come in useful in the future, e.g. for taking more complete lecture notes or fitting more words on a postcard.

My goals for this project are to (1) work through all the units on the website, (2) improve my speed to at least my current longhand speed, and (3) write shorthand as fast as people talk.

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