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Comment author: wnoise 04 February 2010 08:24:35PM 3 points [-]

It's not HTML, but "markdown" which gets turned into HTML.

http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Comment_formatting

Comment author: PrimIntelekt 05 February 2010 04:16:53AM 1 point [-]

Thank you!

Comment author: prunes 03 September 2008 10:05:48PM 8 points [-]

Eliezer,

The other assumption made about Prisoner's Dilemma, that I do not see you allude to, is that the payoffs account for not only a financial reward, time spent in prison, etc., but every other possible motivating factor in the decision making process. A person's utility related to the decision of whether to cooperate or defect will be a function of not only years spent in prison or lives saved but ALSO guilt/empathy. Presenting the numbers within the cells as actual quantities doesn't present the whole picture.

Comment author: PrimIntelekt 04 February 2010 08:17:43PM *  2 points [-]

Important point.

Let's assume that your utility function (which is identical to theirs) simply weights and adds your payoff and theirs; that is, if you get X and they get Y, your function is U(X,Y) = aX+bY. In that case, working backwards from the utilities in the table, and subject to the constraint that a+b=1, here are the payoffs:

a/b=2: (you care twice as much about yourself)
(3,3) (-5,10)
(10,-5) (1,1)

a/b=3:
(3,3) (-2.5,7.5)
(7.5,-2.5) (1,1)

a=b:
Impossible. With both people being unselfish utilitarians, the utilities can never differ based on the same outcome.

b=0: (selfish)
The table as given in the post

I think the most important result is the case a=b: the dilemma makes no sense at all if the players weight both payoffs equally, because you can never produce asymmetrical utilities.

EDIT: My newbishness is showing. How do I format this better? Is it HTML?

Comment author: SilasBarta 03 February 2010 03:30:01AM -1 points [-]

whoosh! ;-)

Comment author: PrimIntelekt 04 February 2010 04:24:44AM 1 point [-]

It's worth considering who's at fault when nobody "gets" a joke.

The purpose of humor is to entertain or communicate in some form; if a joke flops with every member of its target audience, I don't think you can blame said audience without lowering yourself to the standards of smug postmodernist writers.

Tangential: Nietzsche could conceivably be accused of this attitude, but he was really aiming to discourage lightweight thinkers from reading and misunderstanding his work. Obviously, it didn't work.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Logical Rudeness
Comment author: jimmy 29 January 2010 08:20:50PM 1 point [-]

That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to go about acting on it.

Would you just pretend to have the same initial beliefs and then 'discuss' counterarguments that you 'just thought of'?

That method wouldn't work if the person already knows your position, but it might work quite well if the person isn't even aware of your position, much less that you hold it.

In response to comment by jimmy on Logical Rudeness
Comment author: PrimIntelekt 31 January 2010 10:24:25PM 7 points [-]

I've done this occasionally, actually.

One time, I found a very opinionated guy with a high opinion of himself -- I think he might have been Objectivist, but he scoffed at literally every philosophy he mentioned so it's hard to tell. I figured that trying to debate him would just end the conversation early; he's the type to quickly classify those who disagree as sheeple. So, I copied his conversational style a bit, agreed with him on most points but disagreed enough to keep the conversation interesting and get some insight into his views. I don't think I was directly dishonest about my opinions; I just positioned myself as an ally (in an "Us vs. Them" sense) and worked from there.

I recommend this to anyone who wants to understand the reasoning of, say, creationists, but can't talk to them without reaching an impasse of rationality vs. dogma.

Comment author: jsabotta 25 March 2007 03:15:58PM 9 points [-]

Really, the best advice would be "Get out of Syracuse before the Romans show up" but I suppose your infuriating machine would refuse to transmit that as well.

Comment author: PrimIntelekt 10 October 2009 05:22:32PM 5 points [-]

Perhaps "Get off of Earth before Nemesis sends some more comets our way"

Nemesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28star%29

Reasoning: The Roman invasion could have been predicted, but wouldn't have been well supported by evidence -- although foreign invasions were certainly a repeated (even cyclic) phenomenon. Of course, the Nemesis hypothesis rests on an unproven root cause of all major extinction events, whereas invasions came from various, known causes...