Comment author: hyporational 29 December 2013 05:25:06AM *  0 points [-]

I'm not sure I understand why the body would eat internal organs on a two month diet when there's plenty of fat and muscle to burn, or why losing some muscle mass would be dangerous.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 29 December 2013 05:24:30PM 0 points [-]

The heart is made of muscle tissue, and the digestive system is lined with it.

Comment author: hyporational 28 December 2013 09:31:14PM 0 points [-]

A caloric deficit of more than 25% is considered very dangerous

Is the caloric deficit inherently dangerous or is it that people usually cut the wrong things from their diet? Do you think there are significant dangers to an otherwise healthy person who gets all the micronutrients they need during the deficit and does it only for a month or two?

Comment author: Psychosmurf 29 December 2013 02:33:23AM 0 points [-]

Yes, an extreme caloric deficit would be dangerous to anybody. If the body can't make up the difference between the energy expended and energy eaten by burning fat, it will go into starvation mode, slow down, start eating muscle mass and eventually the internal organs.

Comment author: brazil84 28 December 2013 05:00:59PM 0 points [-]

There are a lot of people who assert that they cannot lose weight on 1200 calories per day. Normally such people assert that it is their metabolism.

When such people are metabolically tested, it is invariably discovered that their metabolisms are perfectly normal and they eat far more calories than they realize.

Of course the claim being made by Eliezer's friend is a bit different. It's that if she has enough of a calorie deficit to lose weight, her fat cells will not give up enough energy to make up the deficit. So that she will feel terrible but not lose any weight. While I concede that there may be people out there like that, it's a pretty extraordinary claim for any individual to make. For one thing, even if your fat storage system is working perfectly normally, it will be uncomfortable to run a caloric deficit especially in the early days of a diet as your body adjusts. Such discomfort is widely reported among all dieter, successful or not. So how can the person possibly know that she isn't experiencing the normal discomfort experienced by all dieters? I would want a medical diagnosis before concluding that something was so seriously wrong with a person's fat storage system.

Here's a question: Did the individual successfully lose weight in the past (even if they later regained)? If so, that's a good indication that their fat storage system is working properly.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 28 December 2013 05:28:58PM *  0 points [-]

My suspicion is that she neither experienced ordinary discomfort nor does she have a faulty metabolism. Rather, it's possible that her weight loss strategy was far too extreme. A caloric deficit of more than 25% is considered very dangerous. If she did cut her calories that far, then it's little wonder why she went through hell. Add that to the random variation in her weight caused by water and then it's obvious why she'd given up on trying to lose weight.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 28 December 2013 06:36:31AM 1 point [-]

I've never tried starving myself that much (I worry that it will cause my brain to cannibalize irreplaceable neurons or something, the way the rest of the body cannibalizes muscle) but I've just recently watched that happen to someone else who tried to lose weight by not eating and wasn't metabolically privileged enough to get away with it.

I think she was probably on 1200cal/day or something like that? Maybe less? Naturally, eating more hadn't produced weight loss, so she went lower, which naturally also failed to produce weight loss.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 28 December 2013 04:16:53PM *  0 points [-]

so she went lower, which naturally also failed to produce weight loss.

Now, you say "she", and that's important. For women, their weight fluctuates a lot more throughout the day simply due to water intake and excretion. I think it's possible that she was losing weight in the form of body fat but it failed to show up on her scale. What is recommended is that one measures their weight as a weighted moving average. There's an app on the hacker's diet site that does just that.

1200 cal/day sounds extremely low unless this person is very small. However, that doesn't really tell me anything unless you can also give me her height and weight at the time. The calorie deficit is what's important. Also, was she exercising on top of this 1200 calorie diet?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 17 March 2011 09:17:35PM 20 points [-]

Bleah. Still not used to this high status thing.

But seriously, if you are not metabolically privileged, what happens if you try this is that your body shuts down and goes into starvation mode instead of losing weight. Your fat cells do not release fat under any circumstances, though they're happy to hoover up blood sugar so you always feel tired. We're not talking "feeling hungry", we're talking that you stop feeling hungry and lie down, feeling very very cold and having a hard time moving. Literal starvation, instead of your fat cells releasing fat. I've never tried starving myself that much (I worry that it will cause my brain to cannibalize irreplaceable neurons or something, the way the rest of the body cannibalizes muscle) but I've just recently watched that happen to someone else who tried to lose weight by not eating and wasn't metabolically privileged enough to get away with it.

A calorie is not a calorie. The thermodynamic theory of metabolism is a fucking lie. And it seriously does wear away on your nerves like sandpaper, after a while, to be blamed for it, when the exact same diet can make one person thin and cause the other to blow up like a balloon...

Eh, just read "Beware of Other-Optimizing."

Comment author: Psychosmurf 28 December 2013 05:22:49AM 1 point [-]

Just what kind of a calorie deficit were you running when you experienced this?

Comment author: Psychosmurf 29 November 2013 07:53:03PM 0 points [-]

I think that all ethical systems are just rationalizations, hence all the difficulties in using them consistently.

Comment author: nick012000 28 September 2010 12:43:59AM 0 points [-]

To be perfectly honest, if I had my morality stripped away, and I thought could get away with it, I'd rape as many women as possible.

Not joking; my tastes already run towards domination and BDSM and the like, and without morality, there'd be no reason to hold back for fear of traumatizing my partners, other than the fear of the government punishing me for doing so.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 19 September 2013 02:24:51AM 0 points [-]

Your honesty is appreciated.

Personally, I would aim to change things so that the attainment of any goal whatsoever is possible for me to achieve. Essentially, to modify myself into a universe conquering, unfriendly super-intelligence.

But why rape? I mean, it just seems so arbitrary and trivial...

Comment author: lukeprog 28 April 2013 09:12:50PM 23 points [-]

The comparison that leapt into my mind was Chomskians talking about how politicians and the media decide which topics are even discussed. Not sure if they have a term for that. I guess what you call "Privileging the Question" is part of framing in the social sciences sense. It's handy to have a phrase for this particular thing, though.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 30 April 2013 01:13:05AM 4 points [-]

I believe they would term it "manufactured consent." Although, I think the two ideas are slightly different. The idea behind manufactured consent is that, in order to answer a question one way or another, you must implicitly accept its premises. It is a special, politicized case of privileging the question.

Comment author: FermatsLastRolo 20 February 2013 01:55:08PM 1 point [-]

I also struggle to create mental imagery. In this scenario, I do imagine a scene, but it's not generally composed of imagery. I'm aware that this probably won't make sense to someone who has a primarily visual imagination, but when I'm imagining a scene like this, it's more like a network of facts in my head - I piece together the underlying concepts behind what's being described, rather than a visual representation of them.

For example, if I'm imagining a room full of people, I'll have a mental model of everyone's positions in the room, which I'll then update if the story mentions that someone is stood at the left of the room and I'm imagining them at the right. However, I don't have a picture of the room in my head while I'm doing this, there's no image of where the people are stood - it's just something I 'know'.

If I'm given a description of a person's appearance, I incorporate facts about their appearance in my mental model of them, but I still don't form a mental image representing them. If I was asked to draw someone that was described to me, I could attempt it (despite my poor drawing skills), but I would be converting my mental model into a picture at this stage - I wouldn't be drawing from a picture in my head. When I try to recall a fictional character, my mental model of them is overwhelmingly based on things like personality traits, and my perception of how their mind might work. I can remember details of appearance, but they take the form of 'has ~5cm, dark straight hair', rather than a picture of how said hair might look.

Comment author: Psychosmurf 27 February 2013 03:15:01AM 0 points [-]

For example, if I'm imagining a room full of people, I'll have a mental model of everyone's positions in the room, which I'll then update if the story mentions that someone is stood at the left of the room and I'm imagining them at the right. However, I don't have a picture of the room in my head while I'm doing this, there's no image of where the people are stood - it's just something I 'know'.

That's very strange. I don't see how you can keep track of their positions without visualizing the room and labeling their locations visually in at least some rudimentary way. I would honestly be very surprised if you actually kept track of every visual detail verbally. Barring this bizarre possibility, It seems to me like your visual cortex is processing the "picture" but for some reason you aren't experiencing it directly...

Comment author: Psychosmurf 26 September 2012 03:39:40AM *  2 points [-]

Inside Harry Potter's pineal gland is not an immortal soul, but the level five Tegmark multiverse.

Hmmm... makes sense...

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