Comment author: PuyaSharif 22 October 2011 01:39:17PM 0 points [-]

Can you really assume the agent to have a utility function that is both linear in paperclips (which implies risk neutrality) and bounded + monotonic?

In response to Rational toy buying
Comment author: PuyaSharif 19 October 2011 10:50:50PM *  5 points [-]

When I was eight or nine i got one of those electricity/magnetism experiment kits. Boy, did I love that kit! I did that motor, electric bell and electromagnet experiment over and over again for maybe a year and then moved on to building my own electronic stuff from components I found tearing old TV's and radios apart. I soon had a little club at home teaching my friends!

Some years ago when my cousin just had turned nine I got him a kit and hoped to see him become as interested in electronics as I was in his age. But he hardly opened the box, and when I came to visit a year later that kit was long gone and forgotten. It simply could not stand the competition against the video games and toy guns.

I don't want to demotivate you with this story. Just want to say that stimulating a kid towards some interest is much more than buying a set of object for them. The key is the time you spend and how you spend it. Make it a step by step project. Ask her; maybe there are things among your alternatives that are more interesting to her than other. Followup and communicate. Visit museums etc..

Comment author: TimS 19 October 2011 04:07:49PM 1 point [-]

People don’t use [calculus, physics, chemistry, etc] in daily life unless they are professionals.

Isn't this statement true?

Comment author: PuyaSharif 19 October 2011 04:27:56PM 1 point [-]

It depends on how you define 'use'. People are trying to make sense of reality all the time. Different scenarios needs different tools and different ways of thinking. Basic high school science helps you understand parts of the news flow, some aspects of the mechanisms of your household appliances, transportation related concepts like time, velocity, acceleration, your body and so on.

Comment author: shminux 19 October 2011 03:50:52PM 2 points [-]

Do you really mean that people would be better off never being exposed to ("interesting but useless") natural science? Would you prefer a society where most people doesn't have a clue about how things around them came to be or how they work?

I suspect that your are making and destroying a straw man here. The original (admittedly rather rambling) post did not advocate never exposing students to science, but rather a specific way of doing it, a sort of a loose version of Socratic questioning.

Comment author: PuyaSharif 19 October 2011 03:58:06PM *  1 point [-]

shend, shimux. I am not questioning the overall thesis of the post. Just reacting to:

"I think the problem here is that people can’t understand what is really important. Calculus, mechanical physics, chemistry, microiology, etc. are interesting to learn, perhaps. But, they are relatively advanced topics. People don’t use them in daily life unless they are professionals. Why not learn things that we think about every day instead of those that will frankly be useless to most? "

Comment author: PuyaSharif 19 October 2011 01:54:13PM *  4 points [-]

Calculus, mechanical physics, chemistry, microbiology etc are areas describing objective reality. They explain how the world we live in works on a fundamental level, i.e the very fabric of reality. Not only do they give answers to basic questions of human life, they also activate the students toward systematic analytical thinking and questioning.

Do you really mean that people would be better off never being exposed to ("interesting but useless") natural science? Would you prefer a society where most people doesn't have a clue about how things around them came to be or how they work? How would a potential engineer or a researcher build up its interest towards science if never exposed to it systematically?

Learning about music and art is good, but not at expense of science!

Comment author: PuyaSharif 12 October 2011 11:02:09PM 6 points [-]

This problem reminds me of the movie Memento. The lead character was unable to make any new memories and his mind was reset every two or three minutes. Nevertheless was he trying to find his wifes killer, and kept record of new leads by taking pictures with a Polaroid camera, keeping notes and tattooing pieces of information to his body. Great movie!

Comment author: PuyaSharif 11 October 2011 03:26:43PM 1 point [-]

An interesting related question would be: What would people in a big population Q choose if given alternatives: extreme pain with probability p=1/Q or tiny pain with probability p=1. In the framework of expected utility theory you'd have to include not only the sizes of the pains and size of populations but also the risk aversion of the person asked. So its not only about adding up small utilities.

Comment author: Nornagest 10 October 2011 11:51:48PM *  5 points [-]

Further: Any chain of reasoning leading to a constrained set of available locations followed by randomization could be used by B to constrain the set of locations to search. Is it therefore possible to beat complete randomization?

Yes. You need to weight locations according to the time it takes to search them and then make a random selection from that weighted set; that'll give you longer search times on average than an unweighted random pick from a large set where most of the elements take a trivially small time to search. I could take a stab at proving that mathematically, if you're comfortable with some abstraction.

You can beat even that by cleverly exploiting features of the setup, as I and muflax did in our responses to the OP, but that's admittedly not quite in keeping with the spirit of the problem.

Comment author: PuyaSharif 11 October 2011 12:40:03AM 1 point [-]

I see your point. A reduction of easily searched places will indeed make it more difficult for B to find the coin, even though B will have a smaller space to search. The question that remains is: given a mathematical description of the search/hide-space what probability distribution over locations (randomization process) will minimize the probability of B finding the coin.

Comment author: PuyaSharif 10 October 2011 11:41:24PM 1 point [-]

As some comments has pointed out there are some loopholes in the original formulation, and I will do my best to close these or accept the fact that they're not closeable (which would be interesting in its own right).

Lets try a simpler formulation.. Basically what is being asked here is that given two intelligences A and B, where A and B are identical (perfect copies), can A have a strategy that minimizes the probability of B finding the coin?

Further: Any chain of reasoning leading to a constrained set of available locations followed by randomization could be used by B to constrain the set of locations to search. Is it therefore possible to beat complete randomization?

The self-fooling problem.

10 PuyaSharif 10 October 2011 10:26PM

I formulated a little problem. Care to solve it?

You are given the following information:

Your task is to hide a coin in your house (or any familiar finite environment).
After you've hidden the coin your memory will be erased and restored to a state just before you receiving this information.
Then you will be told about the task (i.e that you have hidden a coin), and asked to try to find the coin.

If you find it you'll lose, but you will be convinced that if you find it you win.

So now you're faced with finding an optimal strategy to minimize the probability of finding the coin within a finite time-frame.
Bear in mind that any chain of reasoning leading up to a decision of location can be generated by you while trying to find the coin.

You might come to the conclusion that there cant exist an optimal strategy other than randomizing. But if you randomize, then you have the risk of placing the coin at a location where it can be easily found, like on a table or on the floor. You could eliminate those risky locations by excluding them as alternatives in your randomization process, but that would mean including a chain of reasoning!

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