Comment author: CronoDAS 11 November 2015 02:25:04PM 1 point [-]

Formatting tip: If you end a line with two spaces, it'll put the following line directly below it, instead of continuing the paragraph.

Comment author: Raemon 11 November 2015 03:15:23PM 1 point [-]

THANK you!

Comment author: SGrouchy 09 November 2015 10:35:30PM 1 point [-]

I think the topics list is too long for a single holiday. For comparison:

Thanksgiving Giving Thanks Family National Heritage -Pilgrims and Indians

Christmas Generosity/ Giving
Family
Christ
Community of All People/ Brotherhood

Also the more major themes you throw at Solstice, the less you have available to differentiate future possible holidays. Instead of eventually having 3-4 different holidays with different themes and feels, you'd get 3-4 holidays that all cover all the themes.

X-Risk is covered pretty well by Petrov Day, so you could probably cross that off the list since it's taken care of elsewhere. And making atheism a major theme doesn't feel right, because then it feels more like a nyah nyah pooh pooh of Christmas rather than something solemn and important in it's own right.

Comment author: Raemon 09 November 2015 11:38:46PM *  0 points [-]

I actually agree with a lot of this: if you look at the next post, you'll see my thoughts about atheism are "it's not actually a priority at all." (All the topics listed there are not necessarily ones that should be included, just ones that have played some role historically)

That said, I'm also defining subthemes a bit differently than you. For example, if I were making a similar list for Christmas, it'd be:

Generosity
Peace on Earth, Goodwill
Theological Birth of Christ
The Nativity Scene (i.e. Mythological Birth of Christ)
King Herod et all
Family
Winter Festivities / Winter Wonderland
Santa Clause (and Christmas Magic) Christmas Candy/Food (candy canes, gingerbread, etc)

It's not just about the core-themes, it's about the surrounding mythology that springs up around those core themes. Several of the things I just listed also have a lot of sub-components.

The mythology is going to evolve over time, but I do think it's important to give it a strong definition early on, because that can shape how it further evolves over time.

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 05:48:48PM *  6 points [-]

Someone recommended this one. I think it has pluses and minuses over "Do not go gentle."

Dirge Without Music BY EDNA ST. VINCENT MILLAY

I am not resigned to the shutting away of loving hearts in the hard ground.
So it is, and so it will be, for so it has been, time out of mind:
Into the darkness they go, the wise and the lovely. Crowned
With lilies and with laurel they go; but I am not resigned.

Lovers and thinkers, into the earth with you.
Be one with the dull, the indiscriminate dust.
A fragment of what you felt, of what you knew,
A formula, a phrase remains,—but the best is lost.

The answers quick and keen, the honest look, the laughter, the love,—
They are gone. They are gone to feed the roses. Elegant and curled
Is the blossom. Fragrant is the blossom. I know. But I do not approve.
More precious was the light in your eyes than all the roses in the world.

Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned.

Comment author: CronoDAS 08 November 2015 12:12:55AM *  3 points [-]

This seems like an obvious choice for a death-related poem...

Do not go gentle into that good night
Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

It's still under copyright, but I don't think that really matters...

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 05:46:38PM *  0 points [-]

This is definitely a contender. It's currently unclear to me how universal it is. (It seems to be fairly popular in nontranshumanist circles, so I think works for Solstice but also doesn't really feel like an appropriate thing for an actual funeral - not everyone is going to be in a mental state for this poem to be helpful)

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 02:51:33AM *  2 points [-]

Remember that the particular goal here is something that non-transhumanists would not find alienating.

There will be various ways that the Solstice will address transhumanism (I'll discuss in the next post my current plans to approach humanism and transhumanism), but for this post I'd like to engage the "If my ideological opponents were crafting the Solstice with memes they found meaningful, what process would I want them to be using?" mindset.

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 06:49:00AM 2 points [-]

(That said, I do think I want the Solstice to do a better job of capturing why the stars represent the future, and what exactly that could mean)

Comment author: Evan_Gaensbauer 08 November 2015 06:35:01AM 0 points [-]

I don't know if it makes a difference, depending on how many more folks actually read articles posted in Main rather than Discussion, but I encourage you to post this mini-sequence into Main. This might just be my thinking more folks should post in Main because it makes things more interesting to have them receive greater reception. Still, even though this hasn't received tons of upvotes, I think this is fit for Main. The idea of the Secular Solstice and what it has become is to me very key to what LessWrong has come to be about.

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 06:47:16AM *  1 point [-]

My impression is that Main currently doesn't get much visibility - unless things get promoted, you have to actively go looking for articles there, whereas most people who come to LW at all see discussion by default.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 07 November 2015 11:45:41PM *  1 point [-]

Harry's meme for the Solstice:

And someday when the descendants of humanity have spread from star to star, they won’t tell the children about the history of Ancient Earth until they’re old enough to bear it; and when they learn they’ll weep to hear that such a thing as Death had ever once existed!

Comment author: Raemon 08 November 2015 02:51:33AM *  2 points [-]

Remember that the particular goal here is something that non-transhumanists would not find alienating.

There will be various ways that the Solstice will address transhumanism (I'll discuss in the next post my current plans to approach humanism and transhumanism), but for this post I'd like to engage the "If my ideological opponents were crafting the Solstice with memes they found meaningful, what process would I want them to be using?" mindset.

Comment author: CronoDAS 04 November 2015 07:21:13PM 1 point [-]

Is this the kind of event you can bring a Small Child to?

Comment author: Raemon 04 November 2015 07:53:58PM *  0 points [-]

After some consideration, I decided the NYC event is rated PG-13. Children are welcome and encouraged so long as parents think it's a good idea.

Content notes include:

  • discussion of death and extinction, which may be either scary or long-winded-and-boring depending on your child

  • There will be a moment of darkness/silence, but I'll be publicly stating that it's okay if we have babies crying during that section - we're hear to experience sacredness together but we're also here to be people/community together and that means accepting that sometimes kids are cranky)

  • If you feel like your kid needs a break, you can take them to the downstairs Social Hall, where people who are into winter celebrations but not into singing will be hanging out.

If there is demand for it, we might set up some manner of day-care thing for parents who want to bring their kids, who want experience the Darkness™ but don't necessarily want their kid to.

Comment author: AmagicalFishy 02 November 2015 01:21:22AM 0 points [-]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Not being fully versed in the terminology of utilitarians, I may be somewhat in the dark...

... but, is the point of this piece "Money should be the unit of caring" or "Money is the unit of caring"? I expected it to be the latter, but it reads to me like the former, with examples as to why it currently isn't. That is, if money were actually the unit of caring—if people thought of how much money they spend on something as synonymous with how much they care about something—then a lawyer would hire someone to work five hours at a soup kitchen instead of working there for an hour.

It sounds like, as it is now, money isn't the unit of caring and you think it should be. But the end again reads more like the latter statement. Which one was your intent?

Comment author: Raemon 02 November 2015 01:56:06AM 0 points [-]

I think his point was a fairly critical "money is the unit of actually caring". Donating your clothes or some soup kitchen time is the thing you do if you want to feel good about yourself. But if you actually care about getting shit done, money is the unit of how much of that you did.

This may or may not be fair, and may or may not be a useful framing to consider whether it's fair or not.

In response to comment by Raoul589 on White Lies
Comment author: Lumifer 30 October 2015 07:16:08PM 0 points [-]

If a nurse started talking to me about her "sacred duty", I certainly would not believe her.

In response to comment by Lumifer on White Lies
Comment author: Raemon 31 October 2015 12:08:06AM 1 point [-]

Would you believe them more or less than if they said they're not annoyed that you shat the bed?

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