Slow down a little... maybe?

-4 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 07 March 2009 01:34AM

I think that three posts a day over and above Yudkowsky and/or Hanson posts might be enough.  Where anything that gets voted to 0 or below doesn't count, nor do quick links.

Say you differently, readers?  I'm just trying to space things out so we don't get overloaded with everything, all at once... if it turns out that people just have more to say than this, sustainably in the long term, then we can raise the posting speed.

Critiquing Gary Taubes, Part 3: Did the US Government Give Us Absurd Advice About Sugar?

4 ChrisHallquist 30 December 2013 12:58AM

Previously: Mainstream Nutrition Science on Obesity, Atkins Redux

Here's where I start talking about the thing that initially drove me to write this post series: Taubes' repeated misrepresentation of the views of the mainstream nutrition authorities he attacks. I'll start by going back to Taubes' 2002 article. Immediately after the discussion of Atkins, it contains another set of claims that stood out to me as a huge red flag: 

Thirty years later, America has become weirdly polarized on the subject of weight. On the one hand, we've been told with almost religious certainty by everyone from the surgeon general on down, and we have come to believe with almost religious certainty, that obesity is caused by the excessive consumption of fat, and that if we eat less fat we will lose weight and live longer. On the other, we have the ever-resilient message of Atkins and decades' worth of best-selling diet books, including ''The Zone,'' ''Sugar Busters'' and ''Protein Power'' to name a few. All push some variation of what scientists would call the alternative hypothesis: it's not the fat that makes us fat, but the carbohydrates, and if we eat less carbohydrates we will lose weight and live longer.

The perversity of this alternative hypothesis is that it identifies the cause of obesity as precisely those refined carbohydrates at the base of the famous Food Guide Pyramid -- the pasta, rice and bread -- that we are told should be the staple of our healthy low-fat diet, and then on the sugar or corn syrup in the soft drinks, fruit juices and sports drinks that we have taken to consuming in quantity if for no other reason than that they are fat free and so appear intrinsically healthy. While the low-fat-is-good-health dogma represents reality as we have come to know it, and the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in research trying to prove its worth, the low-carbohydrate message has been relegated to the realm of unscientific fantasy.

I'll start with the obvious: We thought sugary soft drinks were intrinsically healthy? To quote an old joke, who do you mean we, kemosabe? Given widespread scientific illiteracy, I wouldn't be surprised if some people have believed that low-fat is a sufficient condition for being healthy, but if so, they didn't get this idea from mainstream nutrition science.

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Critiquing Gary Taubes, Part 1: Mainstream Nutrition Science on Obesity

13 ChrisHallquist 25 December 2013 06:27PM

Related: Trusting Expert Consensus

Lately, I've been thinking a lot about whether we can find any clear exceptions to the general "trust the experts (when they agree)" heuristic. One example that keeps coming up—at least on LessWrong and related blogs—is Gary Taubes' claims about mainstream nutrition experts allegedly getting obesity horribly wrong.

Taubes is probably best-known for his book Good Calories, Bad Calories. I'd previously had a mildly negative impression of him from discussion of him on Yvain's old blog, particularly some of other posts Yvain and other people linked from there, such as this discussion of Taubes' "carbohydrate hypothesis" and especially this discussion of Taubes' attempt to refute the standard calories-in/calories-out model of weight.

But I figured maybe the criticism of Taubes I'd read hadn't been fair to him, so I decided to read him for myself... and holy crap, Taubes turned out to be far worse than I expected. I decided to write a post explaining why, and then realized that, even if I were somewhat selective about the issues I focused on, I had enough material for a whole series of posts, which I'll be posting over the course of the next week.

The problem with Taubes is not that everything he says is wrong. Much of it is ludicrously wrong, but that's only one half of the problem. The other half is that he says a fair number of things mainstream nutrition science would agree with, but then hides this fact, and instead pretends those things are a refutation of mainstream nutrition science. So it's worth starting with a brief in-a-nutshell version of what mainstream nutrition science actually says about obesity.

(The following summary is drawn from a number of sources, including this, this, and this. Everything I'm about to say will be discussed in much greater detail in subsequent posts.)

Here it goes: people gain weight when they consume more calories than they burn. But both calorie intake and calorie expenditure are regulated by complicated mechanisms we don't fully understand yet. This means the causes of overweight and obesity* are also complicated and not fully understood. It is, however, worth watching out for foods with lots of added fat and sugar, if only because they're an easy way to consume way too many calories.

We currently don't have any great solutions to the problem of overweight and obesity. If you consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight, but sticking to a diet is hard. It's relatively easy to lose weight in the short run, and it's possible to do so on a wide variety of diets, but only a small percentage of people keep the weight off over the long run.

As for low-carb diets, people do lose weight on them, but they do so because low-carb diets generally lead people to restrict their calorie intake even when they aren't actively counting calories. For one thing, it's hard to consume as many calories when you drastically restrict the range of foods you can eat. There's also some evidence that low-carb diets may have some advantages. in terms of, say, warding off hunger, but the evidence is mixed. There's certainly no basis for claiming low-carb diets as a magic bullet for the problems of overweight and obesity.

The above points are not the only issues at stake in Taubes' writings on nutrition. Admittedly, he covers a huge amount of ground, from the relationship between sugar and diabetes to the relationship between fat intake and heart disease to the alleged dangers of extremely-low carbohydrate diets. However, I'll be focusing on his claims about the causes of and solutions to the problems of overweight and obesity, because that seems to be the main thing people talk about when they talk about Taubes supposedly showing how wrong mainstream experts can be.

I'll also focus heavily on how Taubes misrepresents the views of mainstream experts on obesity. In the next post, though, I'll be temporarily setting that issue aside in order to look at what Taubes is proposing as an alternative. This will involve examining some claims made by Dr. Robert Atkins, whose ideas' Taubes champions.

*Note: if the use of "overweight" as a noun sounds weird to you, it does to me too, but I discovered as I researched this article that it's standard usage in the literature on the subject. I came to realize there's a good reason for this usage: it's inaccurate to talk about the problem solely in terms of "obesity," but constantly saying "the problem of people being overweight and obese" gets really wordy.

Next: Atkins Redux

Critiquing Gary Taubes, Part 2: Atkins Redux

6 ChrisHallquist 30 December 2013 12:58AM

Previously: Mainstream Nutrition Science on Obesity

Edit: In retrospect, I think it maybe should have combined this post with part 3. Unfortunately, the problem of what to do with existing comments makes that hard to fix now.

Taubes first made a name for himself as a low-carb advocate in 2002 with a New York Times article titled "What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" When I first read this article, I was getting extremely suspicious by the second paragraph (emphasis added):

If the members of the American medical establishment were to have a collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare, this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Robert Atkins, author of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and ''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just possibly this: they find out both of the above are true.

When Atkins first published his ''Diet Revolution'' in 1972, Americans were just coming to terms with the proposition that fat -- particularly the saturated fat of meat and dairy products -- was the primary nutritional evil in the American diet. Atkins managed to sell millions of copies of a book promising that we would lose weight eating steak, eggs and butter to our heart's desire, because it was the carbohydrates, the pasta, rice, bagels and sugar, that caused obesity and even heart disease. Fat, he said, was harmless.

Atkins allowed his readers to eat ''truly luxurious foods without limit,'' as he put it, ''lobster with butter sauce, steak with béarnaise sauce . . . bacon cheeseburgers,'' but allowed no starches or refined carbohydrates, which means no sugars or anything made from flour. Atkins banned even fruit juices, and permitted only a modicum of vegetables, although the latter were negotiable as the diet progressed.

It's one thing to claim that, all else equal, low-carb diets have advantages over low-fat diets. It's another thing to claim you can eat unlimited amounts of fatty foods without gaining weight.

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Zombies! Zombies?

47 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 April 2008 09:55AM

Doviende38008649Your "zombie", in the philosophical usage of the term, is putatively a being that is exactly like you in every respect—identical behavior, identical speech, identical brain; every atom and quark in exactly the same position, moving according to the same causal laws of motion—except that your zombie is not conscious.

It is furthermore claimed that if zombies are "possible" (a term over which battles are still being fought), then, purely from our knowledge of this "possibility", we can deduce a priori that consciousness is extra-physical, in a sense to be described below; the standard term for this position is "epiphenomenalism".

(For those unfamiliar with zombies, I emphasize that this is not a strawman.  See, for example, the SEP entry on Zombies.  The "possibility" of zombies is accepted by a substantial fraction, possibly a majority, of academic philosophers of consciousness.)

I once read somewhere, "You are not the one who speaks your thoughts—you are the one who hears your thoughts".  In Hebrew, the word for the highest soul, that which God breathed into Adam, is N'Shama—"the hearer".

If you conceive of "consciousness" as a purely passive listening, then the notion of a zombie initially seems easy to imagine.  It's someone who lacks the N'Shama, the hearer.

(Warning:  Long post ahead.  Very long 6,600-word post involving David Chalmers ahead.  This may be taken as my demonstrative counterexample to Richard Chappell's Arguing with Eliezer Part II, in which Richard accuses me of not engaging with the complex arguments of real philosophers.)

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Whither Moral Progress?

15 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 16 July 2008 05:04AM

Followup toIs Morality Preference?

In the dialogue "Is Morality Preference?", Obert argues for the existence of moral progress by pointing to free speech, democracy, mass street protests against wars, the end of slavery... and we could also cite female suffrage, or the fact that burning a cat alive was once a popular entertainment... and many other things that our ancestors believed were right, but which we have come to see as wrong, or vice versa.

But Subhan points out that if your only measure of progress is to take a difference against your current state, then you can follow a random walk, and still see the appearance of inevitable progress.

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The "Friendship is Witchcraft" expectation test

-2 PhilGoetz 15 January 2013 05:56PM

My mother won't watch animated movies.  It doesn't matter what the content is.  Whether it's Sponge Bob or Grave of the Fireflies, she believes that animation is used only for shows for children, and that adults shouldn't watch shows for children.  She's incapable of changing this belief, because even if I somehow convince her to sit and watch an animated film, she sees what she expects, not what's in front of her.

I think this is the same thing that creation scientists and climate-change deniers do.  They literally cannot perceive what is in front of them, because they are already convinced they know what it is.

Here's an interesting test, which I discovered by accident:  There's a hilarious series of fan-made parodies of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic on YouTube called Friendship is Witchcraft.  They took show videos and redubbed them to have different stories in which various ponies are robots, fascists, or cult members planning to awaken Cthulhu.  I've shown these videos to four people without explanation, just saying "You've got to see this!" and bringing up "Cute From the Hip" on YouTube.

The same thing always happens.  They watch with stony, I-must-be-polite-to-Phil faces, without laughing.  Eventually I realize that they think they're watching an episode of My Little Pony.  I explain that it's a parody, and they say, "Oh!"  I'd think that lines like "I know we've taught you to laugh in the face of death," "If you think one of your friends is a robot, kids, report them to the authorities so that they can be destroyed!", "I'm covered in pig's blood!", or, "Are you busy Friday?  We need a willing victim for our ritual sacrifice" would prompt some questions.  They don't.  They are so determined to see a TV show for little girls that that's what they see, regardless of what's in front of them.

What Do We Mean By "Rationality"?

112 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 16 March 2009 10:33PM

We mean:

  1. Epistemic rationality: believing, and updating on evidence, so as to systematically improve the correspondence between your map and the territory.  The art of obtaining beliefs that correspond to reality as closely as possible.  This correspondence is commonly termed "truth" or "accuracy", and we're happy to call it that.
  2. Instrumental rationality: achieving your values.  Not necessarily "your values" in the sense of being selfish values or unshared values: "your values" means anything you care about.  The art of choosing actions that steer the future toward outcomes ranked higher in your preferences.  On LW we sometimes refer to this as "winning".

If that seems like a perfectly good definition, you can stop reading here; otherwise continue.

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Many Worlds, One Best Guess

12 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 11 May 2008 08:32AM

Previously in series: Collapse Postulates
Followup toBell's Theorem, Spooky Action at a Distance, Quantum Non-Realism, Decoherence is Simple, Falsifiable and Testable

If you look at many microscopic physical phenomena—a photon, an electron, a hydrogen atom, a laser—and a million other known experimental setups—it is possible to come up with simple laws that seem to govern all small things (so long as you don't ask about gravity).  These laws govern the evolution of a highly abstract and mathematical object that I've been calling the "amplitude distribution", but which is more widely referred to as the "wavefunction".

Now there are gruesome questions about the proper generalization that covers all these tiny cases.  Call an object 'grue' if it appears green before January 1, 2020 and appears blue thereafter.  If all emeralds examined so far have appeared green, is the proper generalization, "Emeralds are green" or "Emeralds are grue"?

The answer is that the proper generalization is "Emeralds are green".  I'm not going to go into the arguments at the moment.  It is not the subject of this post, and the obvious answer in this case happens to be correctThe true Way is not stupid: however clever you may be with your logic, it should finally arrive at the right answer rather than a wrong one.

In a similar sense, the simplest generalizations that would cover observed microscopic phenomena alone, take the form of "All electrons have spin 1/2" and not "All electrons have spin 1/2 before January 1, 2020" or "All electrons have spin 1/2 unless they are part of an entangled system that weighs more than 1 gram."

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On Things that are Awesome

23 Eliezer_Yudkowsky 24 March 2009 03:24AM

This post, which touched on the allowedness of admiration, started me thinking about the nature of things that are awesome.

The first thing one does in such a situation is generate examples.  And my brain, asked to enumerate things that are awesome, said:  "Douglas Hofstadter, E. T. Jaynes, Greg Egan..."

Upon that initial output of my brain, I had many other thoughts:

(1)  My brain was able to list more than one thing that is awesome.  I am not going to dwell on this, because I think it needless to go around saying, "Douglas Hofstadter is awesome, but E. T. Jaynes is awesome too," as though to deliberately moderate or subtract from the admiration of Hofstadter.  The enjoyment of things that are awesome is an important part of life, and I don't think a healthy mind should have to hold back.  But the more things you know that are awesome, the more there is to enjoy—this doesn't mean you should artificially inflate your estimations of awesomeness, but it does mean that if you can think of only one awesome thing, you must be missing out on a lot of life.  And some awesome things, but not all, are compatible enough with yourself that you can draw upon the awesome—Hofstadter and Jaynes are both like this for me, but Greg Egan is not.  So even leaving aside certain mental health risks from having only one awesome thing—it is both enjoyable, and strengthening, to know of many things that are awesome.

(2)  I can think of many places where I disagree with statements emitted by Douglas Hofstadter and Greg Egan, and even one or two places where I would want to pencil in a correction to Jaynes (his interpretation of quantum mechanics being the most obvious).  In fact, when my brain says "Greg Egan" it is really referring to two novels, Permutation City and Quarantine, which overshadow all his other works in my book.  And when my brain says "Hofstadter" it is referring to Gödel, Escher, Bach with a small side order of some essays in Metamagical Themas.  For most people their truly awesome work is usually only a slice of their total output, from some particular years (I find that scary as hell, by the way).

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