Comment author: PhilGoetz 21 March 2010 08:18:26PM 0 points [-]

The laws of the physics are the rules, without which we couldn't play the game. They make it hard for any one player to win. If you took any of the laws away, you'd probably be a paperclip-equivalent by now. And even if you weren't, living without physics would be like playing tennis without a net. You'd have no goals or desires as we understand them.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 23 March 2010 03:12:18AM 4 points [-]

The laws of the physics are the rules, without which we couldn't play the game. They make it hard for any one player to win.

Except that, as far as thermodynamics goes, the game is rigged and the house always wins. Thermodynamics in a nutshell, paraphrased from C. P. Snow:

  1. You can't win the game.
  2. You can't break even.
  3. You can't stop playing.
Comment author: RobinZ 22 March 2010 03:07:46AM 4 points [-]

I heard about a professor (I think physics) who was always telling his students that various propositions were "simple", despite the fact that the students always struggled to show them. Eventually, the students went to the TA (the one I heard the story from), who told the professor.

So, the next class the professor said, "I have heard that the students do not want me to say 'simple'. I will no longer do so. Now, this proposition is straightforward..."

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 23 March 2010 03:04:51AM *  10 points [-]

At the Princeton graduate school, the physics department and the math department shared a common lounge, and every day at four o'clock we would have tea. It was a way of relaxing in the afternoon, in addition to imitating an English college. People would sit around playing Go, or discussing theorems. In those days topology was the big thing.

I still remember a guy sitting on the couch, thinking very hard, and another guy standing in front of him, saying, "And therefore such-and-such is true."

"Why is that?" the guy on the couch asks.

"It's trivial! It's trivial!" the standing guy says, and he rapidly reels off a series of logical steps: "First you assume thus-and-so, then we have Kerchoff's this-and-that; then there's Waffenstoffer's Theorem, and we substitute this and construct that. Now you put the vector which goes around here and then thus-and-so..." The guy on the couch is struggling to understand all this stuff, which goes on at high speed for about fifteen minutes!

Finally the standing guy comes out the other end, and the guy on the couch says, "Yeah, yeah. It's trivial."

We physicists were laughing, trying to figure them out. We decided that "trivial" means "proved." So we joked with the mathematicians: "We have a new theorem -- that mathematicians can prove only trivial theorems, because every theorem that's proved is trivial."

The mathematicians didn't like that theorem, and I teased them about it. I said there are never any surprises -- that the mathematicians only prove things that are obvious.

-- Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 22 March 2010 02:37:20PM *  9 points [-]

But it seems to me that "loving" the current wasteland is not an appropriate emotion.

Granted. It seems to me that the kernel of truth in the original statement is something like "you are not obligated to be depressed that the universe poorly satisfies your preferences", which (ISTM) some people do need to be told.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 23 March 2010 02:56:32AM *  8 points [-]

Since when has being "good enough" been a prerequisite for loving something (or someone)? In this world, that's a quick route to a dismal life indeed.

There's the old saying in the USA: "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." The sentiment carries just as well, I think, for the universe as a whole. Things as they are may be very wrong indeed, but what does it solve to hate the universe for it? Humans have a long history of loving not what is perfect, but what is broken--the danger lies not in the emotion, but in failing to heal the damage. It may be a crapsack universe out there, but it's still our sack of crap.

By all means, don't look away from the tragedies of the world. Figuratively, you can rage at the void and twist the universe to your will, or you can sit the universe down and stage a loving intervention. The main difference between the two, however, is how you feel about the process; the universe, for better or worse, really isn't going to notice.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 23 March 2010 02:17:20AM 8 points [-]

Really, does it actually matter that something isn't a magic bullet? Either the cost/benefit balance is good enough to warrant doing something, or it isn't. Perhaps taw is overstating the case, and certainly there are other causes of akrasia, but someone giving disproportionate attention to a plausible hypothesis isn't really evidence against that hypothesis, especially one supported by multiple scientific studies.

From what I can see, there's more than sufficient evidence to warrant serious consideration for something like the following propositions:

  • Application of short-term willpower measurably expends some short-term biological resource
  • Willpower "weakens" as the resource is depleted, recovering over a longer time span
  • Resource expenditure correlates with reduced blood sugar concentration
  • Increasing blood sugar (temporarily?) restores resource availability

So, my questions are: If this is correct, what practical use could we make of the idea? What could we do as individuals or as a group to decide whether it's useful enough to bother thinking about? Particularly in cases where willpower is needed mostly to start a task rather than continue it, if there's a simple way to get a quick, short-term boost that might make the difference between several hours of productivity vs. akratic frustration, that's significant!

As an aside, I recall seeing some studies indicating that there may be more general principles in play here, regarding the mind's executive functions as a whole, but I don't have citations on hand at the moment.

Comment author: nhamann 21 March 2010 07:20:54PM 3 points [-]

Most of the time I've run into the word "obviously" is in the middle of a proof in some textbook, and my understanding of the word in that context is that it means "the justification of this claim is trivial to see, and spelling it out would be too tedious/would disrupt the flow of the proof."

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 21 March 2010 09:19:55PM 8 points [-]

I thought the mathematical terms went something like this:

  • Trivial: Any statement that has been proven
  • Obviously correct: A trivial statement whose proof is too lengthy to include in context
  • Obviously incorrect: A trivial statement whose proof relies on an axiom the writer dislikes
  • Left as an exercise for the reader: A trivial statement whose proof is both lengthy and very difficult
  • Interesting: Unproven, despite many attempts
Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 21 March 2010 06:47:04PM 7 points [-]

It's said that "ignorance is bliss", but that doesn't mean knowledge is misery!

I recall studies showing that major positive/negative events in people's lives don't really change their overall happiness much in the long run. Likewise, I suspect that seeing things in terms of grim, bitter truths that must be stoically endured has very little to do with what those truths are.

Comment author: orthonormal 21 March 2010 05:55:44PM 6 points [-]

There are plenty of transhumanists here who believe that (with some nonnegligible probability) the heat death of the universe will be the relevant upper bound on their experience of life.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 21 March 2010 06:20:11PM 4 points [-]

Which is fair enough I suppose, but it sounds bizarrely optimistic to me. We're talking about a time span a thousand times longer than the current age of the universe. I have a hard time giving weight to any nontrivial proposition expected to be true over that kind of range.

Comment author: Rain 21 March 2010 01:09:22PM *  4 points [-]

I take exception to this passage, and feel that it is an unnecessary attack:

I have actually heard several smart people po-facedly lament the fact that the universe will end with a whimper. If this seriously bothers you psychologically, then your psychology is severely divorced from the reality that you inhabit.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 21 March 2010 05:34:58PM 5 points [-]

It's a reasonable point, if one considers "eventual cessation of thought due to thermodynamic equilibrium" to have an immeasurably small likelihood compared to other possible outcomes. If someone points a gun at your head, would you be worrying about dying of old age?

Comment author: kpreid 20 March 2010 11:07:02AM 1 point [-]

In my experience (most of which is a few years old) it is said afterward, but has its literal meaning, i.e. that you enjoyed the game, not necessarily that you lost it.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 20 March 2010 11:01:29PM 0 points [-]

A nontrivial variant is also directed sarcastically at someone who lost badly (this seems to be most common where the ambient rudeness is high, e.g., battle.net).

Comment author: barrkel 20 March 2010 02:15:36AM 7 points [-]

I don't know about other people, but I do know something about myself: I don't fully know what I think until I either write it down or speak up. Moreover, the benefits of speaking up without fully thought through ideas is high in group conversations - rather than trying to complete a thought with one's own limited repertoire of to-hand facts and concepts, one can use the group's.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 20 March 2010 10:51:15PM 1 point [-]

Also, few ways are more effective at discovering flaws in an idea than to begin explaining it to someone else; the greatest error will inevitably spring to mind at precisely the moment when it is most socially embarrassing to admit it.

View more: Prev | Next