Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 22 March 2016 02:14:30PM 2 points [-]

I have a maths question. Suppose that we are scoring n individuals on their performance in an area where there is significant uncertainty. We are categorizing them into a low number of categories, say 4. Effectively we're thereby saying that for the purposes of our scoring, everyone with the same score performs equally well. Suppose that we say that this means that all individuals with that score get assigned the mean actual performance of the individuals with that that score. For instance, if there were three people who got the highest score, and their perfomance equals 8, 12 and 13 units, the assigned performance is 11 units.

Now suppose that we want our scoring system to minimise information loss, so that the assigned performance is on average as close as possible to the actual performance. The question is: how do we achieve this? Specifically, how large a proportion of all individuals should fall into each category, and how does that depend on the performance distribution?

It would seem that if performance is linearly increasing as we go from low to high performers, then all categories should have the same number of individuals, whereas if the increase is exponential, then the higher categories should have a smaller number of individuals. Is there a theorem that proves this, and which exacty specifies how large the categories should be for a given shape of the curve? Thanks.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 29 October 2015 04:03:32AM *  14 points [-]

"Spreading quicker" may not be the best question to ask. The question I'm more interested in is, What is the relationship between speed of communication, and the curve that describes innovation over time?

A good model for this is the degree of genetic isolation in a genetic algorithm. Compare two settings for a GA. One allows mating between any two organisms in the population. Another has many subpopulations, and allows genetic exchange between subpopulations less frequently.

Plot the fitness of the most-fit organism in each population by generation. The first GA, which has fast genetic communication, will initially outstrip the second, but it will plateau at a lower level of fitness, and all the organisms in the population will be identical, and evolution will stop. This is called premature convergence.

The second GA, with restricted genetic communication, will catch up and pass the fitness of the first GA, usually continuing on to a much higher optimum, because it maintains homogenous subpopulations (which allows adaptation) but a diverse global population (which prevents premature convergence).

Think about the development of pop music. As communication technology improved, pop stars like Elvis could be heard, seen, and their records marketed and moved across the entire country more efficiently than marketing local musicians, and replaced live performers with recorded music. On one hand, you could live in Peoria and listen to the most-popular musicians in the country. On the other, by 1990, American pop music had nearly stopped evolving. Rebecca Black could become popular across the nation in a single week, but the amount of innovation or quality she produced was negligible.

Basically, rapid communication gives people too much choice. They choose things comfortably similar to what they know. Isolation is needed to allow new things to gain an audience before they're stomped out by the dominant things.

You need to state your preferences as a function of the long-term trajectory of the entropy of ideas, rather than as any instantaneous quantity.

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 29 October 2015 11:09:29AM *  3 points [-]

Great comment. Thanks!

Basically, rapid communication gives people too much choice. They choose things comfortably similar to what they know. Isolation is needed to allow new things to gain an audience before they're stomped out by the dominant things.

This is an interesting idea, reminiscent of, e.g. Lakatos's view of the philosophy of science. He argued that we shouldn't let new theories be discarded too quickly, just because they seem to have some things going against them. Only if their main tenets prove to be unfeasible should we discard them.

I think premature convergence does occur regarding the spread of ideas (memes), too (though it obviously varies). I do think, for instance, that what you describe in music has to a certain extent happened in analytic philosophy. In the early 20th century, several "scientific" approaches to philosophy developed, in, e.g. Cambridge, Vienna and Upsala. Today, the higher pace of communication leads to more convergence.

Comment author: Viliam 29 October 2015 09:11:27AM *  11 points [-]

What about non-elite groups? (...) they are likely to be heavily influenced by the cognitive elite, especially in the longer run.

I think they are likely to be influenced by whom they consider high-status. If you succeed to make a conspiracy theory website seem like an authoritative source (it must seem as professional as the mainstream media, except that it brings "news you will not hear elsewhere"), that's all you need.

Why would anyone make a professionally looking conspiracy theory website? Aren't "professionality" and "crackpot thinking" kinda opposed in real life? Yeah, the genuine crackpots usually also have low regards for mainstream design or marketing. But a professionally looking conspiracy theory website is a great vehicle for political propaganda. So a foreign government may spend a lot of money and professional work to make a high-status conspiracy website, where the conspiracies are filtered, and only those that are neutral or convenient for the owner are published.

This is not a hypothetical scenario. Russians already have such website with online radio in my country. I see advertisements for it almost everywhere. The content is more or less: "Things your government wants to keep secret from you: Vaccination causes autism. West is the source of all evil. Russia is a paradise. Being a member of European Union is bad for you, because they will kidnap and abuse your children!" And of course, the website is "independent and alternative".

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 29 October 2015 10:55:46AM *  0 points [-]

I agree with all of this. The upshot seems to be that its important that those who actually have good ideas achieve high status.

Comment author: ChristianKl 23 October 2015 03:19:10PM 2 points [-]

I think I will want to see further the further debates in the US presidential race in this format. At the moment I don't see a clear link where I can express that preferance and get an email when the next debates get released with annotations.

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 27 October 2015 06:12:31PM 1 point [-]

Good to hear, Christian. We're currently subtitling a bit more of the CNN Democratic debate, which should be up soon. We haven't decided, though, to what extent we will subtitle future debates. This is extremely time-consuming. But you could subscribe to ClearerThinking, who are likely to announce any major new updates. (They also do lots of other rationality related stuff; most notably rationality tests.)

Comment author: fubarobfusco 23 October 2015 11:08:14PM 5 points [-]

In order to be fact-checked, a statement has to be truth-apt in the first place. That is, it has to be the sort of statement that is capable of being true or false.

A lot of political arguments aren't truth-apt; they amount to cheering ("Georgism, boo! Synarchism, yay!") as opposed to historical claims ("Countries that adopt goat control have seen their arson rate double") or even theoretical claims ("The erotic calculation problem predicts that college-educated adults will move out of states that ban vibrators").

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 27 October 2015 06:07:15PM 0 points [-]

Your criticism would be much more interesting if you pointed to concrete problems in my fact-checking/argument-checking.

Comment author: ChristianKl 22 October 2015 09:34:06PM 4 points [-]

But besides new software applications and better debating formats, we also need something else, namely a raised awareness among the public what a great problem politicians' careless attitude to the truth is. They should ask themselves: are people inclined to mislead the voters really suited to shape the future of the world?

I watched the beginning of your annotation of the Republican debate. I think you did a good job at annotating it. The annotations add to the experience of watching the debate, which is likely the most important thing for making it impactful.

There were a few technical issues where the annotation freezed and didn't update (I'm using Firefox).

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 22 October 2015 09:40:51PM 1 point [-]

Thanks! What device did you use? It is working poorly on phones, but we hoped it would work fine on computers. Thanks for pointing this out.

Comment author: Clarity 17 September 2015 12:58:40PM 2 points [-]

Overall fantastic article. One small request:

If they don’t have any special reason not to, people without special knowledge defer to the scientific consensus on technical issues.

Citation needed

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 17 September 2015 03:45:56PM 2 points [-]

Thanks!

I read that in a paper by Dan Kahan on bias, but have been unable to find it since. I hope I don't misremember, but that that was exactly what he said. In any case, I'll notify you in case I find it.

Comment author: Clarity 12 September 2015 06:49:06AM *  0 points [-]

Great post.

Another great resource is the ABC's fact checker, for those political news watchers to see whether the politicians they agree with or disagree with are factually correct or incorrect.

And, to actively compare one's ideological beliefs with theoretical truisms, such as those in game theory

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 12 September 2015 11:36:35AM -1 points [-]

Thanks! Yes, I'm actually working on fact-checking - or rather argument-checking - as well. Here are some posts on that. It's a related but different theme, both falling under the general concept of political rationality, which I talked about at the LW Community Weekend Berlin and EA Global Oxford.

Comment author: ChristianKl 12 September 2015 09:19:46AM 1 point [-]

Instead most people seem to believe themselves to be politically rational, and hold that as a very important value (or so I believe).

That depends a bit on the enviroment. There are cases where people care very much of signaling group alliance. On the left you find people competing on being more ideological pure than the next person.

I had one experience with an extremly smart person, which politically influential parents and maybe a future political career on her own who once quite explicetly said, that's what she was doing after she read a room wrongly and excused for that (it wasn't a even a public event but party internal).

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 12 September 2015 11:06:00AM 1 point [-]

I agree that phrase of mine might a bit too strong. But I think a lot of cynics under-estimate the degree to which people want to be rational and unbiased.

I had one experience with an extremly smart person, which politically influential parents and maybe a future political career on her own who once quite explicetly said, that's what she was doing after she read a room wrongly and excused for that (it wasn't a even a public event but party internal).

I didn't get this anecdote, which sounded interesting.

Comment author: ChristianKl 12 September 2015 10:39:27AM 2 points [-]

I'm uncomfortable with the question distinguishing between "richer than most" and "richer than nearly all". Logically if I answer "richer than most" is true.

There justification of the answer makes little sense as you have to count the number of countries which are richer to find out and not take the EU average.

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 12 September 2015 11:00:31AM *  2 points [-]

Yes, I admit some of the questions could have been better phrased. If I do another test, as I hope to, I'll try to crowdsource this. It would have been easier to come up with good questions if I had had social scientists and scientists in relevant fields on board. Also, I think that would minimize unclarities, and so on (more eyes, etc).

That said, we did a fair amount of pre-testing on Mechanical Turk and on friends.

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