Comment author: quanticle 02 March 2012 10:41:23PM *  7 points [-]

The quote that stood out for me was the following:

The nineteenth century physicists also believed in the aether, as did Newton. There were many aether theories available, but only one was consistent with observation: H.A. Lorentz's theory, which simply asserted that the Maxwell equations were the equations for the aether. In 1904, Lorentz showed (Einstein et al., 1923) that this theory of the aether - equivalently the Maxwell equations - implied that absolute time could not exist, and he deduced the transformations between space and time that now bear his name. [...] That is, general relativity is already there in 19th century classical mechanics.

Now, all that's well and good, except for one, tiny, teensy little flaw: there is no such thing as aether. Michelson and Morley proved that quite conclusively in 1887. Tipler, in this case, appears to be basing his argument on a theory that was discredited over a century ago. Yes, some of the conclusions of aetheric theory are superficially similar to the conclusions of relativity. That, however, doesn't make the aetheric theory any less wrong.

Comment author: TetrahedronOmega 18 June 2015 06:32:45PM 0 points [-]

Hi, Quanticle. You state that "there is no such thing as aether. Michelson and Morley proved that quite conclusively in 1887." For the details on how General Relativity is inherently an æther theory, see physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler and mathematician Maurice J. Dupré's following paper:

  • Maurice J. Dupré and Frank J. Tipler, "General Relativity as an Æther Theory", International Journal of Modern Physics D, Vol. 21, No. 2 (Feb. 2012), Art. No. 1250011, 16 pp., doi:10.1142/S0218271812500113, bibcode: 2012IJMPD..2150011D, http://webcitation.org/6FEvt2NZ8 . Also at arXiv:1007.4572, July 26, 2010, http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.4572 .
Comment author: gwern 02 March 2012 06:14:59PM *  23 points [-]

Tipler paper

Wow, that's all kinds of crazy. I'm not sure how much as I'm not a mathematical physicist - MWI and quantum mechanics implied by Newton? Really? - but one big flag for me is pg187-188 where he doggedly insists that the universe is closed, although as far as I know the current cosmological consensus is the opposite, and I trust them a heck of a lot more than a fellow who tries to prove his Christianity with his physics.

(This is actually convenient for me: a few weeks ago I was wondering on IRC what the current status of Tipler's theories were, given that he had clearly stated they were valid only if the universe were closed and if the Higgs boson was within certain values, IIRC, but I was feeling too lazy to look it all up.)

And the extraction of a transcendent system of ethics from a Feynman quote...

A moment’s thought will convince the reader that Feynman has described not only the process of science, but the process of rationality itself. Notice that the bold-faced words are all moral imperatives. Science, in other words, is fundamentally based on ethics. More generally, rational thought itself is based on ethics. It is based on a particular ethical system. A true human level intelligence program will thus of necessity have to incorporate this particular ethical system. Our human brains do, whether we like to acknowledge it or not, and whether we want to make use of this ethical system in all circumstances. When we do not make use of this system of ethics, we generate cargo cult science rather than science.

This is just too wrong for words. This is like saying that looking both ways before crossing the street is obviously a part of rational street-crossing - a moment's thought will convince the reader (Dark Arts) - and so we can collapse Hume's fork and promote looking both ways to a universal meta-ethical principal that future AIs will obey!

An AI program must incorporate this morality, otherwise it would not be an AI at all.

Show me this morality in the AIXI equation or GTFO!

After all, what is a computer program but a series of imperative sentences?

A map from range to domain, a proof in propositional logic, or a series of lambda equations and reductions all come to mind...

In fact, I claim that an ethical system that encompasses all human actions, and more generally, all actions of any set of rational beings (in particular, artificial intelligences) can be deduced from the Feynman axioms. In particular, note that destroying other rational beings would make impossible the honestly Feynman requires.

One man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens. That the 'honestly' requires other entities is proof that this cannot be an ethical system which encompasses all rational beings.

Hence, they will be part of the community of intelligent beings deciding whether to resurrect us or not. Do not children try to see to their parents’ health and well-being? Do they not try and see their parent survive (if it doesn’t cost too much, and it the far future, it won’t)? They do, and they will, both in the future, and in the far future.

Any argument that rests on a series of rhetorical questions is untrustworthy. Specifically, sure, I can in 5 seconds come up with a reason they would not preserve us: there are X mind-states we can be in while still maintaining identity or continuity; there are Y (Y < X) that we would like or would value; with infinite computing power, we will exhaust all Y. At that point, by definition, we could choose to not be preserved. Hence, I have proven we will inevitably choose to die even if uploaded to Tipler's Singularity.

(Correct and true? Dunno. But let's say this shows Tipler is massively overreaching...)

What a terrible paper altogether. This was a peer-reviewed journal, right?

Comment author: TetrahedronOmega 18 June 2015 06:31:31PM 0 points [-]

Hi, Gwern. You asked, "... MWI and quantum mechanics implied by Newton? Really?" Yes, the Hamilton-Jacobi Equation, which is the most powerful formulation of Newtonian mechanics, is, like the Schrödinger Equation, a multiverse equation. Quantum Mechanics is the unique specialization of the Hamilton-Jacobi Equation with the specification imposed that determinism is maintained: since the Hamilton-Jacobi Equation is indeterministic, because when particle trajectories cross paths a singularity is produced (i.e., the values in the equations become infinite) and so it is not possible to predict (even in principle) what happens after that. On the inherent multiverse nature of Quantum Mechanics, see physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler's following paper:

Regarding the universe necessarily being temporally closed according to the known laws of physics: all the proposed solutions to the black hole information issue except for Prof. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology share the common feature of using proposed new laws of physics that have never been experimentally confirmed--and indeed which violate the known laws of physics--such as with Prof. Stephen Hawking's paper on the black hole information issue which is dependent on the conjectured String Theory-based anti-de Sitter space/conformal field theory correspondence (AdS/CFT correspondence). (See S. W. Hawking, "Information loss in black holes", Physical Review D, Vol. 72, No. 8 [Oct. 15, 2005], Art. No. 084013, 4 pp.) Hence, the end of the universe in finite proper time via collapse before a black hole completely evaporates is required if unitarity is to remain unviolated, i.e., if General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics--which are what the proofs of Hawking radiation derive from--are true statements of how the world works.

Pertaining to your comments doubting "a universal meta-ethical principal that future AIs will obey!": Prof. Tipler is quite correct regarding his aforecited discussion on ethics. In order to understand his point here, one must keep in mind that the Omega Point cosmology is a mathematical theorem per the known physical laws (viz., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics) that requires sapient life (in the form of, e.g., immortal superintelligent human-mind computer-uploads and artificial intelligences) take control over all matter in the universe, for said life to eventually force the collapse of the universe, and for the computational resources of the universe (in terms of both processor speed and memory space) to diverge to infinity as the universe collapses into a final singularity, termed the Omega Point. Said Omega Point cosmology is also an intrinsic component of the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics, of which TOE is itself mathematically forced by the aforesaid known physical laws. Thus, existence itself selects which ethics is correct in order for existence to exist. Individual actors, and individuals acting in groups, can of course go rogue, but there is a limit to how bad things can get: e.g., life collectively cannot choose to extirpate itself.

You go on to state, "there are X mind-states we can be in while still maintaining identity or continuity; there are Y (Y < X) that we would like or would value; with infinite computing power, we will exhaust all Y. At that point, by definition, we could choose to not be preserved. Hence, I have proven we will inevitably choose to die even if uploaded to Tipler's Singularity." Yet if Y is infinite, then this presents no problem to literal immortality. Traditional Christian theology has maintained that Y is indeed infinite.

Interestingly, the Omega Point final singularity has all the unique properties (quiddities) claimed for God in the traditional religions. For much more on Prof. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology and the details on how it uniquely conforms to, and precisely matches, the cosmology described in the New Testament, see my following article, which also addresses the societal implications of the Omega Point cosmology:

Additionally, in the below resource are different sections which contain some helpful notes and commentary by me pertaining to multimedia wherein Prof. Tipler explains the Omega Point cosmology and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model TOE.

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