Comment author: djm 11 July 2014 03:06:49PM 1 point [-]

Interesting post - while I don't have any real answers I have to disagree with this point:

"Why do you think your computer is not conscious? It probably has more of a conscious experience than, say, a flatworm or sea urchin. (As byrnema notes, conscious does not necessarily imply self-aware here.)"

A computer is no more conscious than a rock rolling down a hill - we program it by putting sticks in the rocks way to guide to a different path. We have managed to make some impressive things using lots of rocks and sticks, but there is not a lot more to it than that in terms of consciousness.

Comment author: The_Duck 12 July 2014 02:24:18AM *  6 points [-]

A computer is no more conscious than a rock rolling down a hill - we program it by putting sticks in the rocks way to guide to a different path.

Careful!--a lot of people will bite the bullet and call the rock+stick system conscious if you put a complicated enough pattern of sticks in front of it and provide the rock+stick system with enough input and output channels by which it can interact with its surroundings.

Comment author: dvasya 11 July 2014 10:56:12PM 2 points [-]

Well, perhaps a bit too simple. Consider this. You set your confidence level at 95% and start throwing a coin. You observe 100 tails out of 100. You publish a report saying "the coin has tails on both sides at a 95% confidence level" because that's what you chose during design. Then 99 other researchers repeat your experiment with the same coin, arriving at the same 95%-confidence conclusion. But you would expect to see about 5 reports claiming otherwise! The paradox is resolved when somebody comes up with a trick using a mirror to observe both sides of the coin at once, finally concluding that the coin is two-tailed with a 100% confidence.

What was the mistake?

In response to comment by dvasya on Too good to be true
Comment author: The_Duck 12 July 2014 01:55:53AM *  2 points [-]

This doesn't seem like a good analogy to any real-world situation. The null hypothesis ("the coin really has two tails") predicts the exact same outcome every time, so every experiment should get a p-value of 1, unless the null-hypothesis is false, in which case someone will eventually get a p-value of 0. This is a bit of a pathological case which bears little resemblance to real statistical studies.

Comment author: The_Duck 03 July 2014 01:00:05AM *  0 points [-]

The analogy seems pretty nice. The argument seems to be that, based on the historical record, we're doomed to collective inaction in the face of even extraordinarily dangerous risks. I agree that the case of nukes does provide some evidence for this.

I think you paint things a little too grimly, though. We have done at least a little bit to try to mitigate the risks of this particular technology: there are ongoing efforts to prevent proliferation of nuclear weapons and reduce nuclear stockpiles. And maybe a greater risk really would provoke a more serious response.

Comment author: MadRocketSci 26 June 2014 09:26:37PM *  2 points [-]

I've never understood why explaining the Born Rule is less of a problem for any of the other interpretations of QP than it is for MWI. Copenhagen, IIRC, simply asserts it as an axiom. (Rather, it seems to me that MWI is one of the few that even tries to explain it!)

Comment author: The_Duck 30 June 2014 12:14:47AM 1 point [-]

I think the Born rule falls out pretty nicely in the Bohmian interpretation.

Comment author: The_Duck 26 June 2014 12:16:55AM *  2 points [-]

What frightens me is: what if I'm presented with some similar argument, and I can't spot the flaw?

Having recognized this danger, you should probably be more skeptical of verbal arguments.

Comment author: shminux 25 June 2014 06:54:59PM *  2 points [-]

I see no justification whatsoever for concluding that gravity must therefore be detectable in the weak-field limit.

Suppose we perform an experiment where, based on the measured spin value, we move some macroscopic object with detectable gravity in opposite directions. In the Newtonian background spacetime approach there is no issue with MWI, as both branches live on the same spacetime. In a full GR case, however, the spacetime itself must decohere into different branches, or else we could detect the interaction between different branches gravitationally (I don't know if this has been tested, but it would be extremely surprising if detected). I am not sure what would the mechanism which splits the spacetime itself be, since all current QM/QFT models are done on a fixed background (ignoring ST and LQG). So presumably this requires Quantum Gravity. Yet the whole thing happens at very low energies, slow speeds and weak spacetime curvatures, so that's why I said that this would have to be a QG effect in the weak-field limit. Of course it would only be "detectable" in a sense that if there is no gravitational interaction between branches, then the spacetime itself must decohere by some QG mechanism.

Comment author: The_Duck 25 June 2014 08:17:45PM 3 points [-]

This is essentially the standard argument for why we have to quantize gravity. If the sources of the gravitational field can be in superposition, then it must be possible to superpose two different gravitational fields. But (as I think you acknowledge) this doesn't mean that quantum mechanical deviations from GR have to be detectable at low energies.

Comment author: Desrtopa 16 June 2014 11:35:57PM 0 points [-]

I don't think most of the LW population would regard that as "super high." Plus, most people in the Ivy League having IQs upwards of 130 doesn't equate to most people with IQs upwards of 130 making it into the Ivy League. I'd be interested to know what the correlation with financial success is for additional IQ above the mean among Ivy Leaguers.

Comment author: The_Duck 24 June 2014 02:27:02AM 1 point [-]

I'd be interested to know what the correlation with financial success is for additional IQ above the mean among Ivy Leaguers.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a paper discussing this and probably you can find data if you google around for "iq income correlation" and similar.

Comment author: [deleted] 09 June 2014 09:21:12PM 5 points [-]

Yes, very definitely so. The other thing that makes LW seem... a little bit silly sometimes is the degree of bullet swallowing in the LW canon.

For instance, just today I spent a short while on the internet reading some good old-fashioned "mind porn" in the form of Yves Couder's experiments with hydrodynamics that replicate many aspects of quantum mechanics. This is really developing into quite a nice little subfield, direct physical experiments can be and are done, and it has everything you could want as a reductive explanation of quantum mechanics. Plus, it's actually classical: it yields a full explanation of the real, physical, deterministic phenomena underlying apparently quantum ones.

But if you swallowed your bullet, you'll never discover it yourself. In fact, if you swallow bullets in general, I find it kind of difficult to imagine how you could function as a researcher, given that a large component of research consists of inventing new models to absorb probability mass that currently has nowhere better to go than a known-wrong model.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Rationality Quotes June 2014
Comment author: The_Duck 10 June 2014 12:50:57AM *  5 points [-]

Plus, it's actually classical: it yields a full explanation of the real, physical, deterministic phenomena underlying apparently quantum ones.

Note that because of Bell's theorem, any classical system is going to have real trouble emulating all of quantum mechanics; entanglement is going to trip it up. I know you said "replicate many aspects of quantum mechanics," but it's probably important to emphasize that this sort of thing is not going to lead to a classical model underlying all of QM.

Comment author: timujin 08 June 2014 06:39:50PM 3 points [-]

I don't get it. (I know what random variables and covariance are)

Comment author: The_Duck 08 June 2014 07:53:11PM 4 points [-]

I read it as saying that people have many interests in common, so pursuing "selfish" interests can also be altruistic to some extent.

Comment author: shminux 07 June 2014 09:23:31PM -1 points [-]

Given that every time we discover something new we find that there are more questions than answers, I find it hard to believe that the process should converge some day.

Comment author: The_Duck 07 June 2014 10:23:05PM *  8 points [-]

every time we discover something new we find that there are more questions than answers

I don't think that's really true though. The advances in physics that have been worth celebrating--Newtonian mechanics, Maxwellian electromagnetism, Einsteinian relativity, the electroweak theory, QCD, etc.--have been those that answer lots and lots of questions at once and raise only a few new questions like "why this theory?" and "what about higher energies?". Now we're at the point where the Standard Model and GR together answer almost any question you can ask about how the world works, and there are relatively few questions remaining, like the problem of quantum gravity. Think how much more narrow and neatly-posed this problem is compared to the pre-Newtonian problem of explaining all of Nature!

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