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Hell bans and mederators abusing their power

-5 The_Lion2 29 January 2016 01:02AM

Apparently some moderator has gone drunk with power and is attempting to impose hell-bans.

 

What you should do immediately:

 

1) Log out of your account and make sure you can still see your comments.

 

2) If you can't create a new account and post a reply in the comments so we can know how extensive the problem is.

 

I am posting this so that we can have a transparent discussion about moderation, something at least one moderator apparently doesn't want.

 

Also, note to the moderator in question: if this post disappears, it will be resubmitted.  Attempting to suppress transparency will not work.

 

Comment author: TimS 26 January 2016 06:30:22PM *  0 points [-]

First, 42 million includes children for who I doubt there is a public criteria we can agree on as proxy for intelligence. Second, I'm not sure IQ > 130 is .13%. Wikipedia suggests 1%.

Since those cut in opposite directions, let's pretend they wash out. I am comfortable asserting there are more than 60k black folks in the set of:
- senior military officers (colonel or greater)
- highly successful national public intellectuals (eg Powell, Coates, Rice)
- highly successful lawyers (Clarence Thomas is top 1% of lawyers)
- highly successful MDs & research PhDs (eg Neil DeGrasse Tyson).
- highly successful media/entertainment personalities (Sean "Diddy" Combs, Oprah, etc).
- highly successful technocrats (mayors / police chiefs / school superintendent in large metro areas)

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:28:12AM 8 points [-]

highly successful MDs & research PhDs (eg Neil DeGrasse Tyson).

As discussed elsewhere in this thread, Neil DeGrasse Tyson is "media science personality" not a successful researcher.

highly successful technocrats (mayors / police chiefs / school superintendent in large metro areas)

It doesn't take that much intelligence to be elected Mayor. Especially if your black in a majority black city and the electorate votes on tribal solidarity. Hence a few infamous cases, like Mayor Marion Barry of DC.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: Viliam 26 January 2016 08:43:48AM *  2 points [-]

My description of men's rights activists is usually used as negative. First, it implies they are losers, i.e. low-status, which for most people means that their opinions are not worth to consider seriously. Second, it implies that they merely generalize from their personal issues, which against means that they are biased, and that people who don't have the same issues can ignore them.

To put it in a near mode, imagine that you are at a lecture where someone speaks about men's rights, and then someone in the audience whispers to their neighbor "this guy had a nasty divorce recently". Is this remark meant to make the person who heard it treat the lecture more seriously, or less seriously?

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:27:05AM 7 points [-]

My description of men's rights activists is usually used as negative. First, it implies they are losers, i.e. low-status, which for most people means that their opinions are not worth to consider seriously. Second, it implies that they merely generalize from their personal issues, which against means that they are biased, and that people who don't have the same issues can ignore them.

Of course, if "men" were replaced with any other group in that description, it would be considered positive.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: CCC 26 January 2016 05:32:55AM 0 points [-]

His Wikipedia article is rather vague on how he made his wealth,

He is or has been a director of a lot of companies; you can find a substantial background on his directorships over here. Given the salaries that high-end directors tend to receive, it;s no wonder he's built up that sort of wealth.

So is being one of the worst presidents in US history something to be proud of?

I'll admit, my knowledge of US history is very poor, as I do not live there. All I really know about Obama is that he seems to be a substantial improvement on Bush; I have absolutely no basis for comparison with anyone further back than that.

But becoming US President is, I think, something to be proud of in and of itself. It can't be something that's easy to do.

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:25:11AM 9 points [-]

All I really know about Obama is that he seems to be a substantial improvement on Bush

At least when Bush intervened in the Middle East, he didn't let it lead to blowups like Libya or Syria/ISIS.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: Good_Burning_Plastic 26 January 2016 10:02:35AM 3 points [-]

Let me know when you make it to the end of the sentence in gjm's comment that I quoted.

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:24:17AM 8 points [-]

Oh yes. Well that was sort of my point. In any case, doesn't say good things about the effects of transitioning.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: Anders_H 26 January 2016 12:30:46AM 1 point [-]

Whoops, my apologies. Thanks for noticing. Corrected

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:23:50AM 9 points [-]

Pitty, the original version was actually true.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: gjm 25 January 2016 10:03:31PM 3 points [-]

I haven't looked at the evidence with enough care to have a strong opinion. I certainly don't think the "race realist" position is impossible in principle. (Some versions of it, anyway. I'm sure there are stupid versions that are obviously wrong, but there are stupid versions of everything that are obviously wrong.) On the other hand, I'm not impressed by the quality of some of the research I've seen cited to support it, and the startling rapidity of the Flynn effect seems to me to give good reason to think that performance on IQ tests is more affected by cultural and/or environmental factors than everyone would like them to be. On the other other hand, while the relevant evidence is pretty shitty there does seem to be quite a lot of shitty evidence pointing the same way. On the other other other hand, most of the people making noise about the aforesaid evidence show signs of really genuinely being horrible racists, which is maybe what I'd expect if the evidence were crap and people only believed it because it suits their prejudices. On the other^4 hand, that's also roughly what I'd expect if the evidence were perfectly OK but it were socially unacceptable to say such things, as in fact it is.

So, all things considered, I'm buggered if I know, and getting to the bottom of it seems like it would involve wading into a swamp of horrible racism on one side and kneejerk social justice on the other, filled with research that's crappy because (1) doing decent research on this stuff is really difficult and (2) for very understandable reasons hardly anyone actually wants to work on it. Which sounds like a lot of No Fun.

So I'm reserving judgement and leaving that particular cesspool well alone; it occasionally makes itself slightly useful by encouraging people whose brains have been fried by one sort of politics or another to reveal themselves as such by shouting obnoxiously about it.

(My political prejudices incline me to the "it's all bloody nonsense" side. My prejudice in favour of things with sciency-looking studies backing them up inclines me the other way. I try not to be pushed around too much by my prejudices.)

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:23:16AM 9 points [-]

I haven't looked at the evidence with enough care to have a strong opinion.

I haven't looked at the evidence with extensive detail either. I base my position mostly on the fact that the anti-race realist at best need an ever more elaborate system of epicycles to keep their position consistent with the world as we observe it. In practice, they tend to resort to calling their opponents vaguely defined negative terms, like "horrible racists", without bothering to define what they mean and how this constitute evidence against race-realism.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

For original thread go here.

Comment author: username2 25 January 2016 10:42:43PM 8 points [-]

To clarify, there are 4 embarrassing/disgraceful/noteworthy things happening here, which are embarrassing to different people in different ways.

First, the fact that The_Lion thinks this way is a disgrace for The_Lion.

Second the fact that his comment is heavily upvoted is due to the fact that he has sockpuppet accounts which he uses to upvote his posts. It is slightly embarrassing for The_Lion that he chooses to interact with the internet in this way.

Third, the fact that The_Lion has not been banned despite making comments like this one and generating upvotes in violation of the site's policy is a sign of how woefully undermoderated LessWrong is. It is actually worse than it appears from this one example, because The_Lion is the fourth account by a person whose first 3 accounts were banned for similar abuses of the karma system. But after each account is banned, he makes a new account, continues to act in the same ways, and doesn't get banned again for several months.

Fourth, the fact that many people are responding to The_Lion as if this was a serious discussion, despite how transparently false and odious his comments are, and despite (many of) them knowing The_Lion's four-account-long history, shows how badly LessWrong as a community has failed at the virtues behind "don't feed the trolls" and avoiding "someone is wrong on the internet".

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:21:50AM 7 points [-]

How about the fact that we have people who seem to think that calling other people's arguments a "disgrace" and "odious" is a rational way to refute them.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: gjm 25 January 2016 10:09:46PM 1 point [-]

I have no idea whether anyone to speak of actually does consider George Washington Carver an important scientist, though the available evidence suggests he was a very clever guy. Neil deGrasse Tyson, so far as I know, isn't considered important as a scientist by anyone, including himself, but he seems to me very obviously an outstanding popularizer of science on his own merits.

None of which is actually relevant to your remark about dancing bears. The point about the dancing bear, remember, is that it may be an absolutely hopeless dancer by the standards we usually use, and that the only thing interesting about it is that it's astonishing that a bear can dance at all. Was George Washington Carver a hopeless scientist? Nope. Are black people so uniformly unintelligent that it's astonishing that one can be a scientist at all? Nope. (Even on a stronger "race realist" position than seems to me in any way credible.)

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:21:18AM 10 points [-]

The point about the dancing bear, remember, is that it may be an absolutely hopeless dancer by the standards we usually use, and that the only thing interesting about it is that it's astonishing that a bear can dance at all. Was George Washington Carver a hopeless scientist?

And the bear does in fact dance. The point is that the fact that it's necessary to drag out someone like George Washington Carver (and as Vaniver mentioned above stick him next to Albert Einstein) is evidence against blacks in general being good at science.

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

Comment author: katydee 25 January 2016 09:56:54PM *  6 points [-]

This is one of the worst comments I've seen on LessWrong and I think the fact that this is being upvoted is disgraceful. (Note: this reply refers to a comment that has since been deleted.)

Comment author: The_Lion2 29 January 2016 12:20:18AM 10 points [-]

This is one of the worst comments I've seen on LessWrong

Care to expand on that? Are you saying it's false or that it's true but you'd rather not think about it?

Comment restored due to hell-ban imposed by power-mad administrator on The_Lion. (Note to administrators: attempting to abuse your power in this manner will generate far more drama than moderating in a transparent manner.)

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