Comment author: turchin 29 October 2015 09:30:38AM -2 points [-]

It would also interesting to note that the program can't run and optimise itself simultaneously. Probably it need to copy its source code, edit it, than terminate itself and start the new code. Or edit only subagent which is not in use in current moment.

Comment author: Thomas 29 October 2015 10:53:12AM 0 points [-]

the program can't run and optimise itself simultaneously

I think, the hot updating is to consider as well.

Comment author: username2 14 October 2015 04:29:44AM 4 points [-]

To be fair, it seems that recently almost everyone can speak before a some kind of UN panel.

Comment author: Thomas 15 October 2015 09:22:34AM 1 point [-]

Which is good. The last thing I want is the UN to mess with AI. So, if it is just another UN panel, I don't have to worry.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 12 October 2015 08:41:10PM 1 point [-]

Wildberger's complaints are well known, and frankly not taking very seriously. The most positive thing one can say about it is that some of the ideas in his rational trignometry do have some interesting math behind them, but that's it. Pretty much no mathematican who has listened to what he has to say have taken any of it seriously.

Comment author: Thomas 13 October 2015 07:05:57AM -1 points [-]

Sure, I know he is not taken very seriously. That is his own point, too.

In the time of Carl Sagan, in the year 1986 or so, I became an anti Saganist. I realized that his million civilization in our galaxy alone is an utter bullshit. Most likely only one exists.

Every single astro-biologist or biologist would have said to a dissident like myself - you don't understand evolution, sire, it's mandatory!

20 years later, on this site, Rare Earth is a dominant position. Or at least - no aliens position.

On the National Geographic channel and elsewhere, you still listen "how previously unexpected number of Earth like planets will be detected".

I am not afraid of mathematicians more than of astrobiologists. Largely unimpressed.

Comment author: twanvl 12 October 2015 04:43:06PM 3 points [-]

This question presupposes that the task will ever be done Sure. It's called super-tasks.

From mathematics we know that not all sequences converge. So the sequence of distributions that you gave, or my example of the sequence 0,1,2,3,4,... both don't converge. Calling them a supertask doesn't change that fact.

What mathematicians often do in such cases is to define a new object to denote the hypothetical value at the end of sequence. This is how you end up with real numbers, distributions (generalized functions), etc. To be fully formal you would have to keep track of the sequence itself, which for real numbers gives you Cauchy sequences for instance. In most cases these objects behave a lot like the elements of the sequence, so real numbers are a lot like rational numbers. But not always, and sometimes there is some weirdness.

From the wikipedia link:

In philosophy, a supertask is a countably infinite sequence of operations that occur sequentially within a finite interval of time.

This refers to something called "time". Most of mathematics, ZFC included, has no notion of time. Now, you could take a variable, and call it time. And you can say that a given countably infinite sequences "takes place" in finite "time". But that is just you putting semantics on this sequence and this variable.

Comment author: Thomas 12 October 2015 04:46:19PM 0 points [-]

So the sequence of distributions that you gave, or my example of the sequence 0,1,2,3,4,... both don't converge. Calling them a supertask doesn't change that fact.

I don't understand you.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 12 October 2015 03:25:13PM 8 points [-]

The limit of your distributions is not a distribution so there's no problem.

If there's any sort of inconsistency in ZF or PA or any other major system currently in use, it will be much harder to find than this. At a meta level, if there were this basic a problem, don't you think it would have already been noticed?

Comment author: Thomas 12 October 2015 04:03:26PM -2 points [-]

What can one expect after this super-task is done to see?

Nothing?

At a meta level, if there were this basic a problem, don't you think it would have already been noticed?

It has been noticed, but never resolved properly. A consensus among top mathematicians, that everything is/must be okay prevails.

One dissident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=27&v=4DNlEq0ZrTo

Comment author: twanvl 12 October 2015 02:12:23PM 2 points [-]

Why do you believe that? And do you also believe that ZF is inconsistent?

Comment author: Thomas 12 October 2015 03:20:04PM 0 points [-]

Yes. It's not the Choice axiom which is problematic, but the infinity itself. So it doesn't mater if ZF or ZFC.

Why do I believe this? It's known for some time now, that you can't have an uniform probability distribution over the set of all naturals. That would be an express road to paradoxes.

The problem is, that even if you have a probability distribution where P(0)=0.5, P(1)=0.25, P(2)=0.125 and so on ... you can then invite a super-task of swapping two random naturals (using this distribution) at the time 0. Then the next swapping at 0.5. Then the next swapping at 0.75 ... and so on.

The question is, what is the probability that 0 will remain in its place? It can't be more than 0, after the completion of the super-task after just a second. On the other hand, for every other number, that probability of being on the leftmost position is also zero.

We apparently can construct an uniform distribution over the naturals. Which is bad.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 12 October 2015 01:08:32PM 1 point [-]

At least two major classes of existential risk, AI and physics experiments, are areas where a lot of math can come into play. In the case of AI, this is understanding whether hard take-offs are possible or likely and whether an AI can be provably Friendly. In the case of physics experiments, the issues connected to are analysis that the experiments are safe.

In both these cases, little attention is made to the precise axiomatic system being used for the results. Should this be concerning? If for example some sort of result about Friendliness is proven rigorously, but the proof lives in ZFC set theory, then there's the risk that ZFC may turn out to be inconsistent. Similar remarks apply to analysis that various physics experiments are unlikely to cause serious problems like a false vacuum collapse.

In this context, should more resources be spent on making sure that proofs occur in their absolute minimum axiomatic systems, such as conservative extensions of Peano Arithmetic or near conservative extension?

Comment author: Thomas 12 October 2015 01:11:03PM 1 point [-]

Not that it counts much, but I do believe that the ZFC is inconsistent.

New Year's Prediction Thread (2014)

9 Thomas 01 January 2014 09:38AM

It's time to look back to see what was predicted a year ago and how successfully it was.

But even more, it's time for the fresh predictions for the following year, 2014.

Open Thread, October 7 - October 12, 2013

5 Thomas 07 October 2013 02:52PM

If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.

Meetup: Ljubljana

1 Thomas 04 October 2013 10:32AM

Tonight, Friday 4th October, at 19:00 in Kraka, Ljubljana, we have a very casual transhumanistic meeting.

WHEN: 4 October 2013 19:00:00PM (CET+1)

WHERE: Karaka bar (Stihova 13, Ljubljana):

 

 

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