Comment author: Lumifer 12 August 2015 08:22:48PM 4 points [-]

This starts to look like Lake Woebegon.

The argument that overconfident people will be willing to accept lower compensation and so outcompete "more rational individuals" seems to be applicable very generally, from running a pizza parlour to working as a freelance programmer. So, is most everyone "more overconfident than average"?

Comment author: Wei_Dai 12 August 2015 09:01:05PM *  2 points [-]

Good point. :) I guess it actually has to be something more like "comparative overconfidence", i.e., confidence in your own scientific ideas or assessment of your general ability to produce scientific output, relative to confidence in your other skills. Theoretical science (including e.g., decision theory, FAI theory) has longer and weaker feedback cycles than most business fields like running a pizza parlor, so if you start off overconfident in general, you can probably keep your overconfidence in your scientific ideas/skills longer than your business ideas/skills.

Comment author: cousin_it 12 August 2015 01:47:14PM *  18 points [-]

This is a crazy idea that I'm not at all convinced about, but I'll go ahead and post it anyway. Criticism welcome!

Rationality and common sense might be bad for your chances of achieving something great, because you need to irrationally believe that it's possible at all. That might sound obvious, but such idealism can make the difference between failure and success even in science, and even at the highest levels.

For example, Descartes and Leibniz saw the world as something created by a benevolent God and full of harmony that can be discovered by reason. That's a very irrational belief, but they ended up making huge advances in science by trying to find that harmony. In contrast, their opponents Hume, Hobbes, Locke etc. held a much more LW-ish position called "empiricism". They all failed to achieve much outside of philosophy, arguably because they didn't have a strong irrational belief that harmony could be found.

If you want to achieve something great, don't be a skeptic about it. Be utterly idealistic.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 12 August 2015 08:09:22PM *  1 point [-]

I wrote a post arguing that what is irrational overconfidence for an individual can be good for society. (In short, scientific knowledge is a public good, individual motivations to produce it is likely too low from a group perspective, and overconfidence increases individual motivation so it's good.)

To extend this a bit, if society pays people to produce scientific knowledge (in money and/or status), then overconfident people would be willing to accept a lower "salary" and outcompete more rational individuals for the available positions, so we should expect that most science is produced by overconfident people. (This also applies to any other attribute that increases motivation to work on scientific problems, like intellectual curiosity.) As a corollary, people who produce science about rationality (e.g., decision theorists) are probably more overconfident than average, people who work at MIRI are probably more overconfident than average, etc.

Comment author: V_V 12 August 2015 09:02:16AM *  0 points [-]

What value (either practical or philosophical, as opposed to purely mathematical), if any, do you see in this result, or in the result about episodic environments?

There are plenty of applications of reinforcement learning where it is plausible to assume that the environment is ergodic (that is, the agent can't "die" or fall into traps that permanently result in low rewards) or episodic. The Google DQN Atari game agent, for instance, operates in an episodic environment, therefore, stochastic action selection is acceptable.

Of course, this is not suitable for an AGI operating in an unconstrained physical environment.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 12 August 2015 06:45:53PM 1 point [-]

Yes I agree there can be applications for narrow AI or even limited forms of AGI. I was assuming that Stuart was thinking in terms of FAI so my question was in that context.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 12 August 2015 09:37:45AM 1 point [-]

The main value is that it suggests that an AIXI-like agent that balances exploration and exploitation could be what is needed.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 12 August 2015 06:43:38PM *  2 points [-]

My argument is that "(if it survives) will converge on the right environment, independent of language" is not a property we want in an FAI, because that implies it will try every possible courses of action at some point, including actions that with high probability kills itself or worse (e.g., destroys the universe). Instead, it seems to me what we need is a standard EU maximizing agent that just uses a better prior than merely "universal", so that it explores (and avoids exploring) in ways that we'd think reasonable. Sorry if I didn't make that fully explicit or clear. If you still think "an AIXI-like agent that balances exploration and exploitation could be what is needed", can you please elaborate?

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 11 August 2015 10:39:45AM 1 point [-]

Yes. The problem is not the Hell scenarios, the problem is that we can make them artificially probable via language choice.

I think this shows how the whole "language independent up to a constant" thing is basically just a massive cop-out.

Some results are still true. An exploring agent (if it survives) will converge on the right environment, independent of language. And episodic environments do allow AIXI to converge on optimal behaviour (as long as the discount rate is gradually raised).

Comment author: Wei_Dai 12 August 2015 12:20:07AM *  1 point [-]

An exploring agent (if it survives) will converge on the right environment, independent of language.

But it seems like such an agent could only survive in an environment where it literally can't die, i.e., there is nothing it can do that can possibly cause death, since in order to converge on the right environment, independent of language, it has to try all possible courses of action as time goes to infinity and eventually it will do something that kills itself.

What value (either practical or philosophical, as opposed to purely mathematical), if any, do you see in this result, or in the result about episodic environments?

Comment author: Squark 11 August 2015 07:22:10PM 2 points [-]

As I discussed before, IMO the correct approach is not looking for the one "correct" prior since there is no such thing but specifying a "pure learning" phase in AI development. In the case of your example, we can imagine the operator overriding the agent's controls and forcing it to produce various outputs in order to update away from Hell. Given a sufficiently long learning phase, all universal priors should converge to the same result (of course if we start from a ridiculous universal prior it will take ridiculously long, so I still grant that there is a fuzzy domain of "good" universal priors).

Comment author: Wei_Dai 11 August 2015 11:45:05PM 2 points [-]

As I discussed before, IMO the correct approach is not looking for the one "correct" prior since there is no such thing but specifying a "pure learning" phase in AI development.

I'm not sure about "no correct prior", and even if there is no "correct prior", maybe there is still "the right prior for me", or "my actual prior", which we can somehow determine or extract and build into an FAI?

In the case of your example, we can imagine the operator overriding the agent's controls and forcing it to produce various outputs in order to update away from Hell.

How do you know when you've forced the agent to explore enough? What if the agent has a prior which assigns a large weight to an environment that's indistinguishable from our universe, except that lots of good things happen if the sun gets blown up? It seems like the agent can't update away from this during the training phase.

(of course if we start from a ridiculous universal prior it will take ridiculously long, so I still grant that there is a fuzzy domain of "good" universal priors)

So you think "universal" isn't "good enough", but something more specific (but perhaps not unique as in "the correct prior" or "the right prior for me") is? Can you try to define it?

Comment author: Wei_Dai 11 August 2015 04:35:48AM *  9 points [-]

Interesting paper, but I'm not sure this example is a good way to illustrate the result, since if someone actually built AIXI using the prior described in the OP, it will quickly learn that it's not in Hell since it won't actually receive ε reward for outputting "0".

Here's my attempt to construct a better example. Suppose you want to create an agent that qualifies as an AIXI but keeps just outputting "I am stupid" for a very long time. What you do is give it a prior which assigns ε weight to a "standard" universal prior, and rest of the weight to a Hell environment which returns exactly the same (distribution of) rewards and inputs as the "standard" prior for outputting "I am stupid." and 0 reward forever if the AIXI ever does anything else. This prior still qualifies as "universal".

This AIXI can't update away from its initial belief in the Hell environment because it keeps outputting "I am stupid" for which the Hell environment is indistinguishable from the real environment. If in the real world you keep punishing it (give it 0 reward), I think eventually this AIXI will do something else because its expected reward for outputting "I am stupid" falls below ε so risking almost certainty of the 0 reward forever of Hell for the ε chance of getting a better outcome becomes worthwhile. But if ε is small enough it may be impossible to punish AIXI consistently enough (i.e., it could occasionally get a non-zero reward due to cosmic rays or quantum tunneling) to make this happen.

I think one could construct similar examples for UDT so the problem isn't with AIXI's design, but rather that a prior being "universal" isn't "good enough" for decision making. We actually need to figure out what the "actual", or "right", or "correct" prior is. This seems to resolve one of my open problems.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 03 August 2015 09:36:11PM 3 points [-]

Sure, we might need an oracle to figure out if a given program outputs anything at all, but we would not need to assign a probability of 1 to Fermat's last theorem (or at least I can't figure out why we would).

Fermat's Last Theorem states that no three positive integers a, b, and c can satisfy the equation a^n + b^n = c^n for any integer value of n greater than two. Consider a program that iterates over all possible values of a, b, c, n looking for counterexamples for FLT, then if it finds one, calls a subroutine that eventually prints out X (where X is your current observation). In order to do Solomonoff induction, you need to query a halting oracle on this program. But knowing whether this program halts or not is equivalent to knowing whether FLT is true or false.

Comment author: jacob_cannell 29 July 2015 08:31:04PM *  1 point [-]

It also does not explain why birds are better at language tasks than cats. Cat brains are much larger. The training rewards in the lab are the same. And, yet, cats significantly underperform parrots at every single language-related task we can come up with. Why? Because the parrots have had a greater evolutionary pressure to be good at language-style tasks - and, as a result, they have evolved task-specific neurological algorithms to make it easier.

Cat brains are much larger, but physical size is irrelevant. What matters is neuron/synapse count.

According to my ULM theory - the most likely explanation for the superior learning ability of parrots is a larger number of neurons/synapses in their general learning modules - (whatever the equivalent of the cortex is in birds) and thus more computational power available for general learning.

Stop right now, and consider this bet - I will bet that parrots have more neurons/synapses in their cortex-equivalent brain regions than cats.

Now a little google searching leads to this blog article which summarizes this recent research - Complex brains for complex cognition - neuronal scaling rules for bird brains,

From the abstract:

We show that in parrots and songbirds the total brain mass as well as telencephalic mass scales approximately linearly with the total number of neurons, i.e. neuronal density does not change significantly as brains get larger. The neuronal densities in the telencephalon exceed those observed in the cerebral cortex of primates by a factor of 2-8. As a result, the numbers of telencephalic neurons in the brains of the largest birds examined (raven, kea and macaw) equal or exceed those observed in the cerebral cortex of many species of monkeys.

Finally, our findings of comparable numbers of neurons in the cerebral cortex of medium-sized primates and in the telencephalon of large parrots and songbirds (particularly corvids) strongly suggest that large numbers of forebrain neurons, and hence a large computational capacity, underpin the behavioral and cognitive complexity reported for parrots and songbirds, despite their small brain size.

The telencephalon is believed to be the equivalent of the cortex in birds. The cortex of the smallest monkeys have about 400 million neurons, whereas the cat's cortex has about 300 million neurons. A medium sized monkey such as a night monkey has more than 1 billion cortical neurons.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 30 July 2015 07:11:46AM *  0 points [-]

The neuronal densities in the telencephalon exceed those observed in the cerebral cortex of primates by a factor of 2-8.

This is curious. I wonder if bird brains are also more energy efficient as a result of the greater neuronal densities (since that implies shorter wires). According to Ratio of central nervous system to body metabolism in vertebrates: its constancy and functional basis the metabolism of the brain of Corvus sp (unknown species of genus Corvus, which includes the ravens) is 0.52 cm^3 O2/min whereas the metabolism of the brain of a macaque monkey is 3.4 cm^3 O2/min. Presumably the macaque monkey has more non-cortical neurons which account for some the difference, but this still seems impressive if the Corvus sp and macaque monkey have a similar number of telencephalic/cortical neurons (1.4B for the macaque according to this paper). Unfortunately I can't find the full paper of the abstract you linked to to check the details.

Comment author: V_V 29 July 2015 10:06:46AM *  -1 points [-]

I guess people aren't seriously trying this because it's probably not much harder to go directly to full superconducting computers (i.e., with logic gates made out of superconductors as well) which offers a lot more benefits

It takes energy to maintain cryogenic temperatures, probably much more than the energy that would be saved by eliminating wire resistance. If I understand correctly, the interest in superconducting circuits is mostly in using them to implement quantum computation.
Barring room temperature superconductors, there are probably no benefits of using superconducting circuits for classical computation.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 29 July 2015 12:26:59PM *  0 points [-]

From the article I linked to:

Studies indicate the technology, which uses low temperatures in the 4-10 kelvin range to enable information to be transmitted with minimal energy loss, could yield one-petaflop systems that use just 25 kW and 100 petaflop systems that operate at 200 kW, including the cryogenic cooler. Compare this to the current greenest system, the L-CSC supercomputer from the GSI Helmholtz Center, which achieved 5.27 gigaflops-per-watt on the most-recent Green500 list. If scaled linearly to an exaflop supercomputing system, it would consume about 190 megawatts (MW), still quite a bit short of DARPA targets, which range from 20MW to 67MW.

ETA: 100 petaflops per 200 kW equals 500 gigaflops per watt, so it's estimated to be about 100 times more energy efficient.

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