Thoughts on becoming more organized

-3 Will_BC 17 August 2014 03:46AM

It seems to me that the rationality movement is doing a sub-optimal job at proliferating. I have seen on multiple occasions posts which suggest that LessWrong is in decline. I think that this has a lot to do with organization, and by organization I mean the effectiveness with which a group of people obtains its goals. I believe that rationality has a more populist message, and I would like to see it refined and spread. I have a collection of my thoughts https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9BZfCmYSqm-TTlfRW1hMVJ5VnM&usp=sharing, with the more concise and up to date summary of my suggestions https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I-T-jiuhHr951FUHZ6q-KUW4oK-GHCjF9bVGr2dwR1M/edit?usp=sharing. I have not developed these ideas to the point where I am strongly attached to them. What I would like to do for now is to create three monthly discussion groups.

 

The first is based on instrumental rationality, and I'd like to call it Success Club. For this group I would like to use [Alex Vermeer's 8760 hours guide](http://alexvermeer.com/8760hours/) as a basis. If you want to join this group, I would suggest you be open minded and able to deal with other people's sensitive issues. This will work as a support group, and if you can't keep confidentiality you won't be able to be a member. The second group is based on more general or epistemic rationality. I would use the sequences as a basis, but if any CFAR alums have better suggestions I would welcome them. The third group is a meta group, discussing the movement as a whole and how to make it more effective. I would like to start by discussing the ideas in the google drive folder that I shared and move from there.

 

If anyone is interested in any of these groups, please send me a PM with a little about yourself and which group(s) you'd be interested in joining. 

 

Edit: Could someone explain why I've been downvoted? Judging by the way the karma is proportioned I'm getting a good number of positive and negative reactions but not a whole lot in the way of feedback.

Comment author: sediment 17 July 2014 01:53:51PM 0 points [-]

Thanks. Do you feel like it's had much impact on your mental state when not meditating?

Comment author: Will_BC 17 July 2014 03:12:30PM 1 point [-]

It's hard to say, since there are confounds to changes in my mental state, but it does seem like I'm calmer and more self-aware, and if I make the connection to meditation I can quickly focus on my breath and change my focus.

Comment author: sediment 14 July 2014 05:16:22PM *  18 points [-]

Request for advice:

Like many people on lesswrong, I probably lie towards the smart end of the bell curve in terms of intelligence, but I'm starting to suspect that I lie somewhere below the mean in terms of ability to focus, concentrate, and direct my attention.

I only recently became concerned about this because it wasn't much of a problem when I was in school. There, I was able to do acceptably well overall by doing well in the subjects that came easily to me without working hard (science, maths... you know the score) and mediocrely in those that didn't. Ditto my undergrad/bachelor's degree.

But I'm currently struggling rather with the thesis project for my master's degree in computer science. The specifics of the thesis itself don't matter, other than that it's a piece of empirical/numerical research involving a lot of coding and a prose write-up. None of the technical aspects of it are beyond me, and yet I feel like in some way it's the first very difficult thing I've ever tried, really tried, at. The hard part is sustaining interest over the whole length of the thing, planning and organizing the overarching, erm, arc of the project as a whole, and forming a 'narrative' out of all the hard-won bits and pieces of data. (I suppose the fact that I feel fairly sure that the project is likely to find a negative result (i.e. that the method under inspection doesn't offer any gains over simpler methods) also doesn't help my motivation.) Luckily, I did well enough in the taught part of my course that I only need to get a mediocre mark in this part in order to get a 'merit' overall.

But I'm also concerned about how this bodes for my future career. I'd like to do well in work, but I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm deficient in a skill which would allow me to do much better.

To convey what I'm talking about: often when I'm trying to work at home I flit between coding for work, reading, coding for fun, listening to music, etc., etc., etc., and consequent don't engage with any of them very deeply, or get much done. Also, I have almost always taken a very long time to get to sleep, often an hour or more, because I find it hard to 'switch off' my brain when I'm in bed and have decided it's time to go to sleep. (I've recently been making the paradoxical attempt to try very hard to switch my brain off and stop thinking in bed, with, surprisingly, some limited success.)

I feel like I lack the five-second level skill to suppress (or at least, to decline to pursue) any old interesting thought which appears while I'm doing something else.

Things I've attempted:

  • Meditation. It seems plausible that meditating could help to 'train' deliberate attention direction in other aspects of life. Does anyone have any experience with this? I tried checking the literature, and found only one weak-ish study supporting such a hypothesis, but I'd be open to anecdotal evidence. I've tried to meditate a few times (less than ten), for about half an hour each time. The first couple of times I became weirdly aggravated and agitated at how bad at it I was: I was frustrated by the realization that something as simple as focusing on one thing and avoiding other thoughts was beyond me. After the first couple of times, I no longer find it aggravating, but I have yet to find it rewarding, either. I haven't yet managed to obtain the focused, quiet state which I understand is the aim, at least for more than a handful of seconds a couple of times. (Is this normal beginner-level performance?)
  • Pomodoros. I've had some success with doing pomodoros of work, including beeminding them, but I find that they're best suited to well-defined, discrete tasks. Tasks which are more nebulous seem less suited to it. Also, I find it hard to do pomodoros unless I'm feeling high-willpower, but perhaps this is fixable with, erm, the application of more willpower.

Things I've considered but haven't attempted:

  • Medication, self-. Is this the sort of thing which would be amenable to a course of Modafinil, or some other nootropic? I could be open to trying this, if it were likely to work.
  • Medication, other. I could try seeing a doctor to see if what I'm talking about warrants a diagnosis of ADD, and a prescription of Ritalin or a similar drug. I have no idea whether what I'm describing would be considered drastic enough to warrant either of those, though.

Any experience with any of the above, speculation on which of them might bear fruit, or suggestions of completely different ideas welcome.

Is this the sort of thing that can be 'trained' through willpower? It seems like a fairly 'deep', even a fundamental, aspect of brain function, so I wonder how plastic such a thing is. Any thoughts on this welcome also.

Finally, am I just worrying too much about this? I was recently heartened to come across this Nassim Nicholas Taleb quote:

If you get easily bored, it means that your BS detector is functioning properly; if you forget (some) things, it means that your mind knows how to filter; and if you feel sadness, it means that you are human.

Perhaps I just have a very stringent bullshit detector. Evidence in favour of this proposal: I think I am able to focus extremely well on personal projects (typically things that I code for fun and find intrinsically rewarding). In fact, when I stop those, it's less often from boredom and more by guiltily tearing myself away in order to get back to my "real" work. (On the other hand, perhaps there's such a thing as a too-stringent bullshit detector - one so stringent as to give false positives.)

Summary: I'm concerned that my focus/concentration skills are significantly worse than average, and that this could be detrimental to my outcomes in life. How can I improve them?

Comment author: Will_BC 16 July 2014 07:14:06PM 1 point [-]

Regarding the mediation, I had a professor of Eastern Philosophy speak at one of my clubs, and he led us in a meditation. When I asked him how long it took before he saw results from his meditation practice, he said about six months, so it's not maximally effective immediately. Anecdotally, I can say that I I have noticed my ability to focus during the meditation to have improved, though I haven't maintained it for six months yet.

Comment author: beth 15 July 2014 06:13:30PM 1 point [-]

When you're ready to share these ideas, please let me know how I can help.

Comment author: Will_BC 16 July 2014 06:10:37PM 0 points [-]

Thank you very much for the offer. I should have a post up in over a week and under a month.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 14 July 2014 04:04:25AM 9 points [-]

Note that opinions differ on this topic, e.g. someone recently referred to LW as a "signaling and self-help cesspit" and got upvoted. Personally, I like seeing self-help stuff and I would encourage you to be the change you want to see :)

Comment author: Will_BC 14 July 2014 08:29:54PM 2 points [-]

It's in the works. I've got a few ideas, but right now I'm running them by family and friends. I have some ambitious goals but I'll probably start small. I would like to see some big changes happen in the world, and I don't think that working in the most straightforward way towards the Singularity is the only way to bring them about.

Comment author: iarwain1 14 July 2014 12:23:36AM *  7 points [-]
Comment author: Will_BC 14 July 2014 02:01:25AM 6 points [-]

Those posts are 4 years old and 2 years older than CFAR. I do think that LW could and should do better with instrumental rationality.

In response to Eutopia is Scary
Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 January 2009 06:43:29AM 9 points [-]

I'm sure most of you would be fine, but the question I have to ask is "Will this drive more than 5% of my reading audience insane?"

Comment author: Will_BC 02 July 2014 12:37:08AM 0 points [-]

If you're talking about Brennan's world, it's already driven me a little insane, to the point of having suicidal thoughts. I'm getting better with that now as the rest of your writing is helpful medicine for bad thinking, If I weren't already very receptive to psychiatric treatment and thankfully had a strong skeptical background, it might not have ended well and the thought that that sort of thing might be going on still bothers me greatly. This was the first time I read this particular post, and it helped me downshift the probability of that such a thing is happening now, but it's dangerous stuff for certain people (people with high levels of dopamine have a higher tendency to make type one errors, perceiving patterns where there are none, according to Michael Shermer). I think you're right that the typical person would be fine, but what you might not know is that if you dig deep enough in the conspiracy world there are suicide memes. I am very sure that the vast majority of your readers would be fine, and that for them your stories would be entertaining, even compelling for some, but my two cents is that the disutility is high enough to outweigh that benefit.

Comment author: [deleted] 01 July 2014 08:25:08AM *  4 points [-]

If I chatter like an idiot today, it's because I'm trying not to think about this shit. The worst thought at a time of tragedy is, "This did not have to happen."

None of it has to happen. But I can't see a way to make it stop happening.

Fuck.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Open thread, 30 June 2014- 6 July 2014
Comment author: Will_BC 01 July 2014 02:30:37PM 0 points [-]

Perhaps this video will put things in perspective. The other commenter is right, availability bias is at play. But just because we've gone far doesn't mean we should stop, and continuing to raise our standards of what is acceptable is a good thing. My belief is that a great deal of violence is caused by political, economic, and social deprivation and inequality, so if you want to feel like you're working against violence I would recommend working to reduce those. But that's my personal way of dealing with badness in the world. I don't feel totally powerless, I can't personally stop it but I can be part of a collective effort to mitigate it. I haven't done much research into the effective altruism community as I'm a poor college student with high future income potential if things go right, so I figure that landscape could change considerably.

The past is the past, but you are not powerless to stop bad things from happening in the future, it won't be you alone and it won't be clear cut, but you can definitely make the world a better place.

Comment author: Plasmon 01 July 2014 06:58:42AM 7 points [-]

The anecdote in this post, about Fermi, Rabi and Szilard considering keeping the possibility of practical nuclear fission a secret, may shed some light on the subject. He thinks that some knowledge is dangerous enough that people who know it may reasonably want to keep it secret.

(much more recently, there has been some controversy about the publication of a way of obtaining a particularily infectious strain of a certain virus, but I can't find any references for that right now)

Comment author: Will_BC 01 July 2014 01:36:57PM *  1 point [-]

I think that I remember reading an even better example about publishing scientific results that might have furthered the Nazis ability to produce a nuclear weapon in HPMOR, though I can't recall where it was exactly. I found that example persuasive, but I considered it a distasteful necessity, not a desirable state of affairs. Hence my confusion at Brennan's world, which I thought being set in the future of our world was perhaps post-Singularity, and therefore the epitome of human flourishing. Another commenter asked me if I wouldn't enjoy the thought of being a super-villain, and I thought , um no, that would be terrible, so maybe there are some Mind Projection issues going on in both directions. I don't know the distribution of people who would gain positive utility from a world of conspiracies, but I'm sure there would be a great deal of disutility with some proportion of current people with current minds. I can see where that world might provide challenge and interest for its inhabitants, but I remain highly skeptical that it's a utilitarian optima. Using my current brain and assuming stable values, it actually seems pretty dystopian to me, but I'll admit that's a limited way to look at things.

Comment author: James_Miller 01 July 2014 05:28:41AM 0 points [-]

I find it inconsistent to censor things to protect sensitive people who think about AI but not people who are sensitive to all the other things that are discussed here.

To the extent there is censorship of dangerous information on LW, the danger is to the future of mankind rather then to the (very real and I don't mean to minimize this) feelings of readers.

Comment author: Will_BC 01 July 2014 06:13:11AM *  2 points [-]

One could make the argument that anything that harms the mission of lesswrong's sponsoring organizations is to the detriment of mankind. I'm not opposed to that argument, but googling censorship of lesswrong did not turn up anything I considered to be particularly dangerous. Maybe that just means that the censorship is more effective than I would have predicted, or is indicative or a lack of imagination on my part.

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