Comment author: JoshuaFox 04 September 2012 09:43:24AM *  2 points [-]

Collaboration, independent work, etc. are very valuable and are needed.

Supervised tests also have a role to play.

  1. It costs a lot to have an expert grade an entire project.
  2. Tests can be standardized, giving comparable results across ten thousand people. I don't know if 10,000 people could be useful asked to, for example, develop a PHP email webapp as their trial project without many versions of the solution leaked into the Internet.
  3. Supervised tests minimize the opportunity for cheating.
  4. If someone does a team project, then even if they did do their share, you don't know what specific skills they have.
  5. Studies of whether such tests correlate with other success metrics show that they do.
  6. Except for a tiny minority of hot-shots (too few to support a business, and they generally find their way in life anyway), the type of independent project that most people are capable of is too trivial to give insight into their abilities.
Comment author: Xeuton 04 September 2012 08:19:31PM 0 points [-]

My primary question then is this: are these shortcomings enough that such a model should completely leave our consideration as an alternative?

My goal with this is to provide choice to employers and ambitious people, and the projects would be things the corporations want to achieve, don't mind sharing the results of with everyone (think more along the lines of a practical dissertation) and would normally be able to ahieve themselves (and possibly already have a rubric for grading results as these projects must be a normal part of the functioning of such businesses) but do not wish to invest more resources and miss out on discovering new talent simply for a more immediate, guaranteed return on investment.

Also, why not make projects interdisciplinary? The sort of rigorous documentation used for scientific studies could be adapted to the method by which students would be able to make notes and regular progress reports. Additionally, encouraging artists or multimedia focused individuals to make visual or audio documentation of their progress engages more fields in the process and encourages interdisciplinary networking.

I think this idea may be contingent on the development of a much more far-reaching change in the education or possibly corporate models in order to function in the real world, but there are many potential benefits I can see to this.

Comment author: JoshuaFox 19 August 2012 08:54:18AM *  20 points [-]

A certification system to replace high-school and college.

With the explosion in independent study on all education levels, certification is the main missing piece. One solution is tests. For example, Pearson's is offering this service to Udacity students. However, certification-by-testing has had a hard time getting prestige. In the high-status parts of the software industry, getting Java/Microsoft/etc. certification is a slight negative on your job value -- i.e., one is expected to countersignal.

So, we need a certification system that succeeds at serving as a signal.

What successful examples can we find? The actuarial industry has a system of advancement with ten exams. There is no requirement to get a certain degree to take them. The top level is considered an intellectual achievement roughly equivalent to a PhD.

Perhaps the certification we're offering should test useless skills which require a long time to acquire, proving that one is not just smart but hard-working. Compare Latin in earlier periods, and the software language Scheme (a language used mostly for theory, not for product development) in the software industry today.

The usual trappings of signaling, like association with prestigious people, would be an essential part of the marketing.

Comment author: Xeuton 04 September 2012 09:11:33AM 1 point [-]

It seems like testing is the go-to idea among contributors thus far for determining whether a person has achieved the level of proficiency in a field that would be commensurate with earning a diploma from a reputable accredited university, but while I have no data to support the following conjecture, I wonder whether electonic testing is even a valid method of determining anything but memory recall at a specific point or set of points in time, if the testing involves multiple steps (i.e. midterms and final).

Why not use projects commisioned or suggested by interested corporations, involving the use of teamwork/teambuilding, leadership, logistics, creativity, and work ethic, while also providing opportunities for prospective employees - people who may have been using Khan Academy alone for years and have not developed the contacts and overall sense of common academic context college students develop over time - to develop those all-important working relationships. Additionally this would allow employers to have more control over the skillsets they actively seek out, and give self-teaching students an opportunity to understand the kind of skills that will actually get them where they want to go in their careers.

Corporations or individuals would use paid accounts to have the opportunity to work with our teams to determine the kind of project that would most help them find the talents they need, and also help determine the conditions of success.

Projects ideally would have practical applications and real-world effects, and any sucessful projects that end up turning their own profit would have predetermined payout models to distribute income between the patron, our company, and the actual prospects who worked on the project itself.

Students who wished to try for a project would could pay a one-time fee to have a lifetime account, and if possible this fee should be able to be covered by as many forms of reputable student financial aid as possible.

It's 2:00 in the morning and I just got back from Burning Man so I doubt my idea is actually coherent or worth pursuing, but on the off chance it is a good idea, I will just post this now and hope it is productive and promotes thoughtful discussion, if not actual support. That said, if there are any holes in the business model or logic that you post and no one else decides to address them, I will take another crack at it tomorrow.

Comment author: Xeuton 04 September 2012 08:16:14AM 7 points [-]

Hey guys, this is David. We met at the main Burn (I was the first to help hold down your tarp at the front row).

Email: xeuton.mojukai@gmail.com

Phone number: (408)836-2205

I should be showing up to pick up my Bike in Berkeley tomorrow morning, but for now just wanted to check in!