Comment author: Alejandro1 06 July 2015 09:12:33PM 1 point [-]

When people say things like "intelligence doesn't exist" or "race doesn't exist", charitably, they don't mean that the folk concepts of "intelligence" or "race" are utterly meaningless. I'd bet they still use the words, or synonyms for it, in informal contexts, analogously to how we use informally "strength". (E.g. "He's very smart"; "They are an interrracial couple"; "She's stronger than she looks"). What they object to is to treating them as a scientifically precise concepts that denote intrinsic, context-independent characteristics. I agree with gjm that your parody arguments against "strength" seem at least superficially plausible if read in the same way than the opponents of "race" and "intelligence" intend theirs.

Comment author: Yosarian2 19 July 2015 06:01:28AM 1 point [-]

When people say "race is a social construct", for the most part, what they mean is that racial categories are divided in ways that are ambiguous and that tend to change over time. Obviously people have different physical features and genetics, but what physical features make one a member of one race or another, where you draw those lines, and what racial distinctions are "important" and which aren't, are all social constructs.

To someone without any that social context (say, an Australian aborigine living in the year 1500 who had never met anyone outside of his own ethnic group previously) it wouldn't immediately be obvious to him that someone from Norway and someone from Greece are both "the same race", but that someone from Greece and someone from northern Africa are "different races".

There was also an interesting study that demonstrated that people's perception of what race someone else was, or even what their own race is, sometimes tends to change over time based on social circumstances.

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/02/11/275087586/study-stereotypes-drive-perceptions-of-race

In response to Crazy Ideas Thread
Comment author: D_Malik 08 July 2015 09:55:52AM *  13 points [-]

Suppose backward time travel is possible. If so, it's probably of the variety where you can't change the past (i.e. Novikov self-consistent), because that's mathematically simpler than time travel which can modify the past. In almost all universes where people develop time travel, they'll counterfactualize themselves by deliberately or accidentally altering the past, i.e. they'll "cause" their universe-instance to not exist in the first place, because that universe would be inconsistent if it existed. Therefore in most universes that allow time travel and actually exist, almost all civilizations will fail to develop time travel, which might happen because those civilizations die out before they become sufficiently technologically advanced.

Perhaps this is the Great Filter. It would look like the Great Filter is nuclear war or disease or whatever, but actually time-consistency anthropics are "acausing" those things.

This assumes that either most civilizations would discover time travel before strong AI (in the absence of anthropic effects), or strong AI does not rapidly lead to a singleton. Otherwise, the resulting singleton would probably recognize that trying to modify the past is acausally risky, so the civilization would expand across space without counterfactualizing itself, so time-consistency couldn't be the Great Filter. They would probably also seek to colonize as much of the universe as they could, to prevent less cautious civilizations from trying time-travel and causing their entire universe to evaporate in a puff of inconsistency.

This also assumes that a large fraction of universes allow time travel. Otherwise, most life would just end up concentrated in those universes that don't allow time travel.

In response to comment by D_Malik on Crazy Ideas Thread
Comment author: Yosarian2 19 July 2015 05:43:06AM 0 points [-]

Alternately, if a type time travel is invented where you can change the past, you would expect people to keep meddling with the past until they accidentally changed it so much that time travel had never been invented.

This process would continue, over and over again, and the final results is that the final "stable" timeline will be one where time travel is never invented; not because it's not possible, but simply because every timeline where time travel is invented eventually changes it's own past until it no longer has time travel.

Comment author: Yosarian2 19 July 2015 05:35:28AM 1 point [-]

Experts are fallacious, thus you can't trust them

One very common example of this I see abused all the time is the argument in the form of "(X) was wrong about (Y) so therefore experts are worthless!"

Comment author: Yosarian2 02 July 2015 02:20:21PM 1 point [-]

I think the "Use surviving particles for ever slower calculations" is probably the most likely solution, assuming an empty universe/ heat death scenario. It was shown, I believe, that based on the expected rate of the expansion of the univese, a thinking being could have an subjectively infinite long period of time that way.

The converse is also possible; in a "big crunch" scenario, you would have a finite period of time, but the amount of energy available in any given volume of space would increase at an accelerating rate and approach infinity, so a being would (in theory) be able to think more and more quickly as the amount of energy available increases, and you could also experience an infinite amount of subjective time within an objectively finite time period.

(Of course, a "big crunch" seems very unlikely now, based on what we know of dark energy.)

Comment author: Azathoth123 02 November 2014 12:10:40AM -2 points [-]

I could half replaced Detroit with (parts of) say Chicago or LA. Detroit is just more dramatic since the dysfunction took over the whole city.

Comment author: Yosarian2 14 November 2014 10:11:57AM 2 points [-]

In general, cities like Chicago and LA have lower crime then they have in decades, have higher property values then they have in decades, and are contributing a great deal to the economy on a per capita basis. Cities in the US in general are doing quite well right now.

In the 1980's, people often argued that cities were "decaying" and all that; the opposite is true now, young people are moving back to cities in large numbers, probably because the high crime rate that drove people out of cities 30 years ago is now way down.

Comment author: XiXiDu 28 October 2014 11:03:28AM *  5 points [-]

Musk's accomplishments don't necessarily make him an expert on the demonology of AI's. But his track record suggests that he has a better informed and organized way of thinking about the potentials of technology than Carrico's.

Would I, epistemically speaking, be better off adopting the beliefs hold by all those who have recently voiced their worries about AI risks? If I did that then I would end up believing that I was living in a simulation, in a mathematical universe, and that within my lifetime, thanks to radical life extension, I could hope to rent an apartment on a seastead on the high seas of a terraformed Mars. Or something along these lines...

The common ground between those people seems to be that they all hold weird beliefs, beliefs that someone who has not been indoctrinated...cough...educated by the sequences has a hard time to take seriously.

Comment author: Yosarian2 31 October 2014 10:47:01PM 0 points [-]

I'm pretty sure that you can't give the sequences credit for all of that. Most people here were already some breed of transhumanists, futurists, or singularitarians before they found LessWrong and read the sequences, and were probably already interested in things like life extension, space travel and colonization, and so on.

Comment author: dougclow 31 October 2014 07:07:11AM 2 points [-]

Empirically we seem to be converging on the idea that the expansion of the universe continues forever (see Wikipedia for a summary of the possibilities), but it's not totally slam-dunk yet. If there is a Big Crunch, then that puts a hard limit on the time available.

If - as we currently believe - that doesn't happen, then the universe will cool over time, until it gets too cold (=too short of negentropy) to sustain any given process. A superintelligence would obviously see this coming, and have plenty of time to prepare - we're talking hundreds of trillions of years before star formation ceases. It might be able to switch to lower-power processes to continue in attenuated form, but eventually it'll run out.

This is, of course, assuming our view of physics is basically right and there aren't any exotic possibilities like punching a hole through to a new, younger universe.

Comment author: Yosarian2 31 October 2014 10:28:12PM *  0 points [-]

I don't remember the exact math, but I believe that it was shown that in an expanding and cooling universe, the amount of energy available at any one spot drops over time, but so long as some distant future energy could slow down it's thinking process and energy use arbitrarily, that you could live forever in subjective time by steadily slowing down the objective speed of your thought process over time. The Last Computer (or energy being, or whatever) would objectively go a longer and longer time between each thought, but from a subjective point of view it would be able to continue forever.

Of course, if the rate of the universe's expansion steadily accelerates indefinitely, that might not work, energy might fall off at too fast of a rate for that to be possible. We don't really know enough about dark energy yet to know how that's going to go.

Comment author: Lumifer 31 October 2014 03:32:24AM 4 points [-]

a place where patriarchy has completely collapsed, say present day Detroit

How did patriarchy collapse in Detroit, exactly? This is a city looted to the ground by corrupt bureaucrats run amok, a failed-state kind of phenomenon. I don't see gender politics playing any major role here.

Comment author: Yosarian2 31 October 2014 09:29:39AM 5 points [-]

I don't think that's what happened in Detroit either.

Really, what happened was that most of the auto jobs left, and much of the population with it. It's a city that's had a shrinking population for 4 decades now. That means a huge amount of abandoned houses, whole city blocks with only one or two people living on them. Because of that, you have a dramatically reduced tax revenue that's no longer able to cover the costs of adequate services, and you have all the social problems of abandoned housing (increased crime and fire risk) without the resources to deal with it. We've never had to deal with a shrinking city in the US before, and we really haven't figured out how to deal with it.

I do agree with you, though, that it clearly has nothing to do with "gender politics" or whatever bizzare explanation the person you're responding to was referencing.

Comment author: Yosarian2 20 June 2014 06:57:19PM *  1 point [-]

So, in a community where a majority of the people believe in a Christian idea of morality and only co-operate with other people with that Christian ideal of morality (strict sexual rules, go to Church every Sunday, ect), then wouldn't your system say that the majority is behaving morally?

And, conversely, that the minority of people in that society with a more humanist value system, who the majority will not co-operate with because they disagree with their value system, will therefore be defined as less moral under that system?

For that matter, if nobody is willing to co-operate with someone because their face looks ugly by the standards of most of the community, then your system would declare the ugly person to also be immoral.

Comment author: Vulture 30 April 2014 12:30:47AM 4 points [-]

You'll have to expand on how exactly this would be beneficial to the original AI.

Comment author: Yosarian2 01 May 2014 09:38:25PM 0 points [-]

It would depend on what the utility function of the original AI was. If it had a utility function that valued "cause the development of more advanced AI's", then getting humans all over the world to produce more AI's might help.

View more: Prev | Next