Comment author: anonym 03 June 2009 04:02:22AM 18 points [-]

Robin Hanson, on the meta-topic of different approaches to answering the question, "what is the most likely route to greater-than-human intelligence, and how likely is it, and when?".

Comment author: aluchko 04 June 2009 09:26:04PM 8 points [-]

I disagree. I think the real benefit in something like this is to is hear a discussion with a community outsider. A discussion between Elizer and Robin would be interesting but wouldn't offer anything substantially different than existing LW/OB content.

Comment author: timtyler 03 June 2009 02:55:31PM 6 points [-]
Comment author: aluchko 03 June 2009 10:21:04PM 2 points [-]

I thought of Myers as well, particularly since PZ is a biologist and not a huge fan of evolutionary psychology it could lead to some informative debate.

Regardless I would be very interested to see a discussion with a physicist/biologist/chemist as opposed to a philosopher/economist/computer scientist. We seem to get a lot of the latter but not much of the former and I'd like to see their perspective on some of our brand of rationality.

In response to comment by timtyler on Dissenting Views
Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 27 May 2009 08:02:32AM *  1 point [-]

Yes, this is indeed the sort of argument that I'm not at all interested in, and naming this site "Less Wrong" instead of "More Wrong" reflects this. I'm going to find where the truth takes me; let me know how that lies thing works out - though I reserve the right not to believe you, of course.

Comment author: aluchko 27 May 2009 05:44:32PM 0 points [-]

One of the concepts I've been playing with is the idea that the advantage of knowing our innate biases is not so much in overcoming them but in identifying and circumventing them.

Your common scenarios regarding risk assessment and perceptions of loss vs. gain generally assume a basis in evolutionary psychology. If these are in fact built into our brains it strikes me trying to overcome them directly is a skill we can never fully master and trying to do so brings tempts akrasia.

Consider a scenario where you can spend $1000 to have a 50% shot of winning $2500. It's a definite win but turning over the $1000 is tough because of how we weigh loss (if I recall loss is weighted twice as greatly as gain). On the other hand you can just tell yourself (rationalize?) that when you hand over the $1000 that you're getting back $1250 for sure. It's an incorrect belief but one I'd probably use as I wouldn't have to expend willpower overcoming your faulty loss prevention circuits.

Which approach would you use?

Comment author: aluchko 16 May 2009 10:45:12PM 12 points [-]

Just a personal observation that for me there seem to be two classes of akrasia.

1) Inertial akrasia: I should be doing task X, I could do task X well if I just got going, I just can't seem to make myself do task X.

2) Exhaustive akrasia: I want to do task X but I've exhausted my willpower reserve. It's hard to start task X and even when I start I generally drift off-task as I've expunged my willpower reserves.

Type 1) akrasia consists of things like getting out of bed and procrastinating, type 2) is more zoning out midday or being unproductive after getting home from work.

They have similar symptoms and a fair amount of overlap but different treatments. Type 1 seems to generally be tricks to get you started, ie counting to 10, setting deadlines, etc. For type 2 treatments are more removing distractions (don't challenge your depleted willpower reserves) and taking a real break to replenish (ie watch a movie or work every other day).

Personally I think a lot of my troubles come when I try treating type 2 as type 1 or vice versa.

For instance often in the morning I'll often take a while to get working despite the fact my willpower reserves should be near full. Instead of taking a break I should have a trick to start working. Conversely at the end of the day I'll sometimes spend the last half hour reading websites and intermittently poking at a project, unwilling to admit that I've run out of willpower and thinking I just need a trick to get going.

I suspect that my failure to correctly identify which kind of akrasia I'm experiencing so I can treat it accordingly is partially a form of akrasia itself.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?

In response to Survey Results
Comment author: Emily 13 May 2009 12:36:39AM 12 points [-]

I'm surprised to see how close I was to the mean in so many cases. I expected on several questions that I would be, if not an outlier, then outside the middle quartiles. I was wrong in most cases. Clearly the OB/LW brainwashing process has been more successful than I realised... :P

Seriously, very interesting results. I'm a bit dismayed by the 3% female figure -- I knew I was in a minority, but I didn't realise it was that tiny. I wish I could articulate some suggestions for getting hold of more female readers/commenters. I can sort of see intuitively how this place could seem like not the most attractive one to some women, but I don't have any ideas for sorting that out. Largely I guess it may just be a self-perpetuating thing. Perhaps the first step ought to be just getting some of the current female readers/commenters to make (more/some) top-level posts too. I wish I felt brave and knowledgeable and intelligent enough to attempt one touching on some aspect or other of feminism.

In response to comment by Emily on Survey Results
Comment author: aluchko 14 May 2009 03:53:50AM 0 points [-]

Why not a top level post noting the lack of women on LW?

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just note the survey results you don't even have to offer any analysis, just noting the problem in a top level post should be enough to draw some women out of the woodwork in the comments section. It might even inspire a few of them to write their own top level posts.

In response to comment by aluchko on Survey Results
Comment author: MichaelVassar 13 May 2009 02:44:22PM 4 points [-]

It's a cliche that kookdom is filled with brilliant scientists outside of their expertise, but its definitely not what I observe when I look at scientific history.

Lots of kook inventors, Faraday, and lots of chemical and life and social scientists who start out correct but ignored or rejected and gradually embrace more extreme, attention-getting, but exaggerated and false versions of their initial thesis as a result of years avoiding their peers and interacting primarily with those members of the public who will act as an echo chamber.

Then there are the free energy and anti-gravity crowds. They seem to be born that way.

Comment author: aluchko 13 May 2009 05:03:20PM 1 point [-]

I should clarify.

I'm specifically thinking of Linus Pauling with his theories about Vitamin C curing cancer and a former Nobel winning physicist (can't remember who) doing a debunking of global warming based on some flaky arguments. Of course Wikipedia claims that Pauling may not have been completely out to lunch (though I don't really trust Wikipedia when it comes to junk science). And I don't really have any hard numbers, just knowledge of a couple cases and some anecdotes from scientists complaining about the tendency of Nobel winners to turn crackpot.

I suppose this could underline the danger I was mentioning about working with limited evidence as I fell victim in my very own example of it!

In response to Survey Results
Comment author: aluchko 13 May 2009 04:34:40AM 13 points [-]

Awesome work.

One thing that disappointed, but didn't really surprise me, was the lack of diversity in the community

"160 (96.4%) were male, 5 (3%) were female, and one chose not to reveal their gender.

The mean age was 27.16, the median was 25, and the SD was 7.68. The youngest person was 16, and the oldest was 60. Quartiles were <22, 22-25, 25-30, and >30.

Of the 158 of us who disclosed our race, 148 were white (93.6%), 6 were Asian, 1 was Black, 2 were Hispanic, and one cast a write-in vote for Middle Eastern. Judging by the number who put "Hinduism" as their family religion, most of those Asians seem to be Indians."

The thing that particularly worries me is our low age. Now it's to be expected as internet communities are a young person's game but I'd be more comfortable with an average age closer to 30.

Combine that with the fact that most of us seem to be in Computers or Engineering (I'd really like to know what those "Other Hard Sciences" were) I do worry about our rationality as a group. One thing I've noticed with junk science is that Engineers and to a lesser extent Computer Scientists seem to be overrepresented. I'm not sure of all the reasons for this, I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence. The problem being if you take that tendency to problem spaces that aren't designed you have a tendency to go flying off in the wrong direction.

I'm worried that we could start turning into an echo-chamber where a localized consensus masks a growing dissonance with the outside world. The Shangri-la diet sounds interesting (I'm even giving it a try) but it also sounds a bit like pseudo-science. There could be a completely different mechanism at work, it could even be the good old fashioned placebo effect. I worry that we'll develop a tendency to believe our rationality is strong enough to wade outside of our fields of expertise, the halls of kookdom are filled with brilliant scientists who wandered into a neighbouring discipline and I worry we could risk the same fate.

I'm not saying Less Wrong is a doomed cause or anything, the topics we explore (oh that crazy old Omega!) we seem to do fairly well on and I've picked up many useful lessons and insights. I just worry since we all want to apply our rationality and find answers, but regardless of how rational you are you can't unravel the secrets of the universe just from analysing a piece of cake.

ps Oh yeah, how many of us 83.4% Libertarians/Liberals were very torn because while we really liked the free-market and social liberty ideals of libertarians there were just too many crackpots over there so we considered giving up some economic freedom for the mainstream democrats.

In response to Return of the Survey
Comment author: kpreid 03 May 2009 12:27:21PM *  8 points [-]

I took the survey. I will now take this opportunity to criticize it.

Severely missing items:

  • "Moral Views" should have had links to definitions; especially of "Eliezer's interpretation".
  • "Charity" should have had a "No opinion/I have no information on the matter" choice.
  • "Cryonics" should have had a "I have not yet considered the matter / No opinion" choice.

Minor missing items:

  • "Political Views" should have been split into questions on the particular attributes listed, for those of us who don't bother to figure out which label applies to us.
  • "Time in Community" should have listed how many months ago LW and OB were created, for convenience.

Clarify your taxonomy:

  • If our universe is a simulation, does the containing universe have any significance to the Supernatural and God questions?
  • If our universe is a simulation, not of some other universe, but constructed from scratch, is the designer of it God in the sense of "Probability: God"? Does it matter whether this entity has edited the state of the simulation since the beginning of its time?
  • If our universe is a simulation which was designed to include ontologically basic mental entities, even though the universe in which it is simulated does not, does that count towards "Probability: Supernatural"?
Comment author: aluchko 06 May 2009 06:22:28AM 1 point [-]

I agree about the political views. The problem is any political parties I've come along with a huge amount of baggage in associated ideas and I'm very hesitant to claim membership with a political tribe lest I signal support for the crazy bits.

In response to Return of the Survey
Comment author: Matt_Simpson 03 May 2009 10:37:35PM *  4 points [-]

Anyone who takes this survey and doesn't post is probably trying to signal that they don't care about karma. Anyone who does post is probably a karmawhore. So if you don't take the survey, you are probably trying to signal that you don't care about karma and you don't care about signaling that you don't care about karma. It appears that no matter what you do on this survey, you are probably trying to signal to the community that you are valuable to the community.

And, yes, I took the survey.

Comment author: aluchko 06 May 2009 06:18:35AM 2 points [-]

Of course some people who post can effectively obscure the signal that they care about karma by trying to display an alternate valid reason they posted.

In response to Closet survey #1
Comment author: anonymous259 15 March 2009 05:57:24PM 10 points [-]

With probability 50% or greater, the long-term benefits of the invasion of Iraq will outweigh the costs suffered in the short term.

Comment author: aluchko 15 March 2009 11:51:50PM 7 points [-]

I can see the reasoning though I don't quite agree for two reasons.

1) If the Lancet report is at all accurate that's a lot of deaths for the long-term benefits to make up for.

2) How much more extreme has that made the rest of the middle east? How has it hurt the possibility of peace in Israel.

I was, and still am against the start of the war, though I've been fairly consistent in thinking they should stay since then. (Oddly enough I thought the surge was a good idea when virtually no-one else did, though have since started to think it didn't really do anything now that everyone is moving on board!).

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