Comment author: anotheruser 06 October 2011 05:14:26PM 1 point [-]

I have been trying to invent an AI for over a year, although I haven't made a lot of progress lately. My current approach is a bit similar to how our brain works according to "Society Of Mind". That is, when it's finished the system is supposed to consist of a collection of independent, autonomous units that can interact and create new units. The tricky part is of course the prioritization between the units. How can you evaluate how promising an approach is? I recently found out that something like this has already been tried, but that has happened to me several times by now as I started thinking and writing about AI before I had read any books on that subject (I didn't have a decent library in school).

I have no great hopes that I will actually manage to create something usefull with this, but even a tiny probability of a working AI is worth the effort (as long as it's friendly, at least).

Comment author: anotheruser 06 October 2011 03:48:34PM 2 points [-]

I think part of the problem is not that the audience is stupider than you imagine but that people sometimes use different techniques to learn the same thing. Your explanation may seem obvious to you but confuse everyone else while an alternative explanation that you would have difficulty understanding yourself would be obvious to others.

One example of this would be that some people learn better by concrete examples while others learn better by abstract ones.

Comment author: anotheruser 01 October 2011 06:45:44PM *  0 points [-]

I have an idea for how this problem could be approached:

any sufficiently powerful being with any random utility-function may or may not exist. It is perfectly possible that our reality is actually overseen by a god that rewards and punishes us for whether we say an even or odd number of words in our life or something equally arbitrary. The likelyhood of the existence of each of these possible beings can be approximated using Solomonoff induction.

I assume that most simulations run by such hypothetical beings wherein we could find ourselves in such a situation would be run by beings who either (1) have no interest in us at all (in which case the Mugger would most likely be a human), (2) are interested in an entirely unpredictable thing resulting from their alien culture, or (3) are interacting with us purely to run social experiments. After all, they would have nothing in common with us and we would have nothing they could possibly want. It would therefore, in any case, be virtually impossible to guess at their possible motivations, as it would be a poorly run social experiment if we could (assuming option three is true).

I would now argue that the existence of Pascal's Mugger does not influence the probability of the existence of a being that would react negatively (for us) to us not giving the 5$ anymore than it influences the probability of the existence of a being with an opposite motivation. The Mugger is equally likely to punish you for being so gullible as he is to punish you for not giving money to someone who threatens you.

Of course none of this takes into consideration how likely the various possible beings are to actually carry out their threat, but that doesn't change anything important about this argument, I think.

In essence, my argument is that such powerful hypothetical beings can be ignored because we have no real reason to assume they have a certain motivation rather than the opposite. Giving the Mugger 5$ is just as likely to save us as shooting the Mugger in the face is. Incidentally, adopting the later strategy will greatly reduce the chance that somebody actually tries to do this.

I realize that this argument seems kind of flawed because it assumes that it really is impossible to guess at the being's motivation but I can't see how this could be done. It's always possible that the being just wants you to think that it wants x, after all. Who can tell what might motivate a mind that is large enough to simulate our universe?

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 18 July 2011 02:22:56PM 6 points [-]

Evolutionary arguments about disease are difficult. Make sure your argument does not explain too much: vitamin deficiencies are real!

Comment author: anotheruser 19 July 2011 11:42:53AM 1 point [-]

Evolutionary arguments about disease are difficult. Make sure your argument does not explain too much: vitamin >deficiencies are real!

Yes, they are difficult. That is because there are many factors at play in reality. But if his theory was correct, the solution would be so simple that evolution could solve it easily.

In reality, vitmain deficiencies have strong negative consequences, but nothing as drastic as what he proposes.

If vitamin deficiencies really had such an incredibly huge impact there would be a much stronger evolutionary pressure. With such a strong pressure, evolution might have developed vitamin storage organs or even a way for creatures to exchange vitamins to prevent vitamin deficiencies at any cost.

Comment author: anotheruser 18 July 2011 01:58:01PM 0 points [-]

I didn't read through everything but if I understand this theory correctly it has a huge flaw:

Evolution would have countered it.

The proposed causes for diseases would be very easy for evolution to "cure". Therefore these diseases wouldn't exist if the theory was correct.

Comment author: Larks 29 June 2011 03:27:17PM 1 point [-]

They just bicker endlessly about uncertainty. "can you really know that 1+1=2?".

I agree with you that I don't think a AGI would have the same problems humans have with the concept of truth. However, what you described is neither the issues philosophers raise nor the sorts of big-universe issues the AI might get stuck on.

Comment author: anotheruser 29 June 2011 04:02:30PM -2 points [-]

But wouldn't that actually support my approach? Assuming that there really is something important that all of humanity misses but the AI understands:

-If you hardcode the AI's optimal goal based on human deliberations you are guaranteed to miss this important thing.

-If you use the method I suggested, the AI will, driven by the desire to speak the truth, try to explain the problem to the humans who will in turn tell the AI what they think of that.

Comment author: Larks 29 June 2011 03:31:29PM 3 points [-]

If we don't define "optimal" properly it should be able to find a suitable definition on its own by imagining what we might have meant.

But it wouldn't want to. If we mistakenly define 'optimal' to mean 'really good at calculating pi' then it won't want to change itself to aim for our real values. It would realise that we made a mistake, but wouldn't want to rectify it, because the only thing it cares about is calculating pi, and helping humans isn't going to do that.

You're broadly on the right track; the idea of CEV is that we just tell the AI to look at humans and do what they would have wanted it to do. However, we have to actually be able to code that; it's not going to converge on that by itself.

Comment author: anotheruser 29 June 2011 03:42:06PM -2 points [-]

It would want to, because it's goal is defined as "tell the truth".

You have to differentiate between the goal we are trying to find (the optimal one) and the goal that is actually controlling what the AI does ("tell the truth"), while we are still looking for what that optimal goal could be.

the optimal goal is only implemented later, when we are sure that there are no bugs.

Comment author: anotheruser 29 June 2011 03:38:20PM 6 points [-]

Hello Less Wrong.

I am 19 years old and have been interested in philosophy since I was 13. Today, I am interested in anything that has to do with intelligence, such as psychology and AI and rationality.

I believe in the possibility of the technological singularity and want to help make it happen.

I hope that the complex and unusual ways of thinking that I have taught myself over the last years while philosophizing will allow me to tackle this problem from directions other people have not yet thought of, just like they enabled me to manipulate my own psyche in limited ways, such as turning off unwanted emotions.

I am currently studying computer science in the first semester with the goal of specializing in AI later.

Comment author: timtyler 29 June 2011 08:09:57AM *  1 point [-]

The AI is smarter than us and understands human psychology. If we don't define "optimal" properly it should be able to find a suitable definition on its own by imagining what we might have meant. If that turns out to be wrong, we can tell it and it comes up with an alternative.

First you have to tell the machine to do that. It isn't trivial. The problem is not with the definition of "optimal" itself - but with what function is being optimised.

The idea that someone else would be able to build a superintelligence while you are teaching yours seems kind of far-fetched.

Well not if you decide to train it for "a long time". History is foll of near-simultaneous inventions being made in different places. Corporate history is full of close competition. There are anti-monopoly laws that attempt to prevent dominance by any one party - usually by screwing with any company that gets too powerful.

Comment author: anotheruser 29 June 2011 02:52:33PM -2 points [-]

First you have to tell the machine to do that. It isn't trivial. The problem is not with the definition of "optimal" itself - >but with what function is being optimised.

If the AI understands psychology, it knows what motivates us. We won't need to explicitly explain any moral conundrums or point out dichotomies. It should be able to infer this knowledge from what it knows about the human psyche. Maybe it could just browse the internet for material on this topic to inform itself of how we humans work.

The way I see it, we humans will have as little need to tell the AI what we want as ants, if they could talk, would have a need to point out to a human that they don't want him to destroy their colony. Even the most abstract conundrums that philosophers needed centuries to even point out, much less answer, might seem obvious to the AI.

The above paragraph obviously only applies if the AI is already superhuman, but the general idea behind it works regardless of its intelligence.

Well not if you decide to train it for "a long time". History is foll of near-simultaneous inventions being made in >different places. Corporate history is full of close competition. There are anti-monopoly laws that attempt to >prevent dominance by any one party - usually by screwing with any company that gets too powerful.

OK, this might pose a problem. A possible solution: The AI, being supposed to turn into a benefactor for humanity as a whole, is developed in an international project instead of by a single company. This would ensure enough funding that it would be hard for a company to develop it faster, draw every AI developer to this one project, thus further eliminating competition, and reduce the chance that executive meddling causes people to get sloppy to save money.

Comment author: Peterdjones 28 June 2011 05:54:43PM 1 point [-]

Why would the AI be evil?

Bugs, maybe

Intentions don't develop on their own. "Evil" intentions could only arise from misinterpreting existing goals.

While you are asking it to come up with a solution, you have its goal set to what I said in the original post:

Have you? Are you talking about a human level AI. Asking or commanding a human to do something doesn't set that as their one an onyl goal. A human reacts according to their existing goals:they might complyhl, refuse or subvert the command.

"the temporary goal to always answer questions thruthfully as far as possible while admitting uncertainty"

Why would it be easier to code in "be truthful" than "be friendly"?

Comment author: anotheruser 29 June 2011 06:53:34AM *  -2 points [-]

that would have to be a really sophisticated bug to misinterpret "always answer questions thruthfully as far as possible while admitting uncertainty" as "kill all humans". I'd imagine that something as drastic as that could be found and corrected long before that. Consider that you have its goal set to this. It knows no other motivation but to respond thruthfully. It doesn't care about the survival of humanity, or itself or about how reality really is. All it cares for is to answer the questions to the best of its abilities.

I don't think that this goal would be all too hard to define either, as "the truth" is a pretty simple concept. As long it deals with uncertainty in the right way (by admitting it), how could this be misinterpreted? Friendliness is far harder to define because we don't even know a definition for it ourselves. There are far too many things to consider when defining "friendliness".

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