Comment author: Perplexed 13 December 2010 06:10:24PM *  22 points [-]

I would like to see sequences of top level postings providing semi-technical tutorials on topics of interest to rationalists.

As one example of a topic: Game Theory

Actually, there is material here for several sequences, dealing with several sub-topics. We need a sequence on games with incomplete information, on iterated games, on two-person cooperative games (we have a couple articles already, but we haven't yet covered Nash's 1953 paper with threats), and on multi-person cooperative games (Shapley value, Core, Nucleolus, and all that).

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 10:08:53AM 1 point [-]

I've studied game theory and rationality, and I don't use game theory even when applying rationality to game design! I've used some of the nontechnical results (threats, from Shelling's book) to negotiate and precommit but that's about it. Has someone else used game theory in real life?

Unless someone else responds to this comment, my guess is that this topic is of greater interest to readers than it is of any use.

Comment author: Kingreaper 14 December 2010 03:33:22AM 11 points [-]

I think we need more (Defence against the) Dark Arts discussion.

And yes I do think we need to learn to use them, as well as defend against them. An irrational person cannot be convinced that rationality is good through the use of rationality.

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 09:47:44AM *  -1 points [-]

By "via rationality" I assume you mean "via logical argument or sound science", which is an absurd substitution. Rationalists should win. The Dark Arts therefore are a type of instrumental rationality. That said, I still disagree, at least for some irrational people (let's roughly say anyone I could convince to eating a food that gives them a stomachache).

They can be convinced they should study [instrumental] rationality, it just requires you present unreasonably large amounts of evidence and don't use logical inference or experiments. (And when I say unreasonably large, that's for people in college studying science. For merely average twenty-somethings, you may need to beat them over the head with solid bricks of evidence.) Caveat: I do not often interact with allegedly common people who don't meet the minimum bar of adjusting expectations based on (sufficient) observation, so this comment does not apply to such persons. It is still a useful comment.

I.e. look, I used this thingy called rationality and I made/saved thousands of dollars, got a boyfriend, and fixed significant mental problems. Seemed to work for me okay. You need to go REALLY overkill on the evidence for non-science folks though. Again, beat them over the head with it. Make it something that will help them personally, too. I've found it useful to get people to agree (not verbally and aloud, though that's an interesting experiment) that whatever mysterious method I used to I do that, it would be a good thing to learn, BEFORE I revealed that the answer is something weird or "educational" sounding. This second half is only slightly dark-artsy (consistency bias).

Comment author: CronoDAS 07 August 2011 02:43:33AM 9 points [-]

My father refuses to spend any time at the New York meetups because he thinks it's for people my age, not his age...

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 09:28:56AM 1 point [-]

Did he say why he thought it was for people your (ChronoDAS's) age?

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2011 03:18:54PM 3 points [-]

I'd really like to see a K&T-style study that wasn't about death. We already know mortality salience has a priming effect. But is it correct to generalize it to other kinds of framing?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Do Humans Want Things?
Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 09:26:38AM 0 points [-]

Check out most of behavioral economics. (I recommend Dan Gilbert on Ted, not linked to avoid trivial chances to waste time)

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 09:20:51AM *  2 points [-]

A year ago, I hired Alicorn as a manger, to tell me to do the things I want to do. I am still employing her. I am externally motivated--I don't think we've yet tried giving her authority to pay my "salary" yet. This is mostly because I'm not sure what a reasonable motivational system would look like in that case. If anyone has a suggestion I consider reasonable, I'll give it a try.

Comment author: Zachary_Kurtz 26 April 2010 04:38:48PM 4 points [-]

Both really. How much time should we dedicate to making our map fit the territory before we start sacrificing optimality? Spend too long trying to improve epistemic rationality and you begin to sacrifice your ability to get to work on actual goal seeking.

On the other end, if you don't spend long enough to improve your map, you may be inefficiently or ineffectively trying to reach your goals.

We're still thinking of ways to be able to quantify these. Largely it depends on the specific goal and map/territory as well as the person.

Anybody else have some ideas?

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 08:15:56AM 1 point [-]

In AI, this is known as the exploration/exploitation problem. You could try Googling "Multi-armed bandit" for an extremely theoretical view.

My biggest recommendation is to do a breadth-first search, using fermi calculations for value-of-information. If people would be interested, I could maybe write a guide on how to do this more concretely?

Comment author: Mass_Driver 05 July 2011 11:35:21PM 1 point [-]

Yes? Those all sound like some of my meta-goals. Perhaps the most important meta-goals for me in this context are that I want to (a) greatly enjoy my leisure time, and (b) consciously choose how much leisure time to engage in. Neither is happening right now.

I will definitely try the rubbing alcohol thing; I had never heard of that. My finger muscles also cramp up, but faster calluses sound like they'd help.

Unfortunately, I have tried all of your other suggestions, and they have not worked. Idle games don't satisfy my urge for interaction, video chat doesn't feel like hanging out to me, people keep promising to move to SF "soon" (much like the people who pledge to attend SF LW meetups), and four different website-blockers have failed for me. The main problem with the website blockers is that most popular flash-games are mirrored on arbitrarily many websites, and i need access to the Internet to get my work done.

Thanks for trying!

Comment author: apophenia 07 August 2011 08:09:55AM 3 points [-]

I found that what reduced my low-value leisure time most was doing something incredibly fun, by explicitly optimizing for it. Then when I went back to i.e. reading webcomics, it seemed mildly repulsive in that it wasn't actually that fun. I suspect, but am not sure that, having a large amount of fun when you have fun 1) Reduces the amount of time you'll spend having fun, in that it satiates your quota earlier. 2) Causes you to consciously choose how much leisure time to have, because it's hard to default into really fun behaviors as procrastination.

I also tried 1) allowing myself to do anything I wanted, as long as I planned it at least half an hour in advance (if you have a pre-set quitting time this could help?) 2) Setting a timer to interrupt every 15 minutes and ask me what I was doing. One of my main problems was cost-insensitivity to time; playing a computer game for 5 hours did not feel almost any more a waste of time than doing it for 1 hour.

Please let me know if any of these work, so I know whether to recommend them to others in the future.

Comment author: apophenia 01 August 2011 05:18:10PM 4 points [-]

Meditation seemed useful to me. Other forms of "introspection" (cognitive biases, direct querying of "what would I do in situation X" in my brain, psychology) were more like "extrospection"--I'd infer my thoughts by my behavior. Meditation seemed to have a shorter inferential distance. I don't have a good non-introspective reason to believe this, although it did seem to get me over procrastination for the first time in weeks, and helped me graduate. I'll find out whether this continues to hold true as I resume meditation.

Comment author: ciphergoth 28 December 2010 02:21:36PM 2 points [-]

I actually tend to argue this point first, and the more general point about efficient charity second. I'm not sure if that's the most effective way to argue it though.

Comment author: apophenia 23 July 2011 08:18:11AM 3 points [-]

I suspect convincing people optimal philanthropy is a good idea is probably one of the most important things one could do. Maybe you should find out?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Procedural Knowledge Gaps
Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 12 February 2011 09:27:31AM *  6 points [-]

Recipes are typically badly underspecified for someone inexperienced at cooking, and the sense this creates, that there's some optimal thing to do that I'm expected to figure out but probably not going to be able to, is something I can find seriously demotivating (despite any explicit knowledge that whatever I end up doing will probably be satisfactory). I wouldn't be surprised if (something like) this is a common problem for LWers.

Comment author: apophenia 15 March 2011 08:06:53AM 0 points [-]

Find a cookbook, which often contains more fleshed-out recipes, instead of searching online. You can of course evaluate a cookbook for this property before you buy one. I find watching Alton Brown (Good Eats) helpful, in that he covers things too simple to be a recipe (eggs), mentions specific problems you might have, explains such things, and of course you can see it being done, which helps. He also explains some of the science behind cooking, which is fun. I assume other cooking shows fix many of these same problems (Julia Child? I haven't watched). I often cook Alicorn's recipes, and can ask her for help if something is underspecified. Finding a somewhat experienced cook to help (preferably in person) might be useful?

German recipes are even worse. They don't specify things like pans, oil, how to combine ingredients, or sometimes even baking temperatures. They're basically a list of ingredients and assume you know... well, more than I do. Plus I don't speak German very well, so I had a nightmare making the one recipe I properly translated.

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