Comment author: pjeby 21 July 2009 08:07:42PM 13 points [-]

If the answer is yes

For PUA styles described as "inner", "direct" or "natural" game, the answer is yes, since they all focus on making the man actually have attractive qualities (such as honesty, confidence, social connections, and emotional stability), rather than simply presenting the appearance of these qualities.

It's rather like "How to Win Friends and Influence People", in that respect. (Whose advice is to cultivate a genuine interest in other people, as opposed to merely faking an interest in other people.)

Comment author: astray 21 July 2009 08:29:42PM 1 point [-]

I missed most of the PUA stuff, so bear with me a bit. Does "honesty" include averred intention? Does the "natural" style promote the mutual and explicitly acknowledged one night stand associated with PUA, or does it foster a "Relationship Artist"?

Have discussions of the "inner" style conjured "ick" factors? Would continued discussions be frowned upon? (If yes, I think this is a more fruitful area for dissection.)

Comment author: Sirducer 21 July 2009 07:00:21PM *  26 points [-]

As far as I can tell most people who dislike PUA techniques don't really understand them.

Most people here don't understand them because they have this model in their mind that if you treat an attractive woman nicely, try to respect her desires and needs, perhaps compliment her, with the internal attitude that women should be "respected" she will respond in kind by respecting your desire to have sex with her.

They never test this model by going to a bar and trying to use it to achieve the goal of sex with an attractive woman. I know this, because if they had tested it even 3 nights in a row, they would have discarded it as "broken". I would love to go out into the field with 10 guys from LessWrong and alicorn to coach them, and watch them get rejected time after time by attractive women.

I would write a top level post explaining the techniques, the PUA model of the generic male-female interaction, the predictions it makes, and how you can go out and collect experimental evidence to confirm or disconfirm those predictions, but I think that I would not get promoted (no matter how good the post was from a rational perspective, measured in bits of information it conveys about the world) and not get much karma, because people here just don't want to hear that truth.

Comment author: astray 21 July 2009 07:59:04PM 8 points [-]

Do PUA techniques withstand the woman's reflection? Once made aware, do they acknowledge the effectiveness and accurately reaffirm their interest independently of the technique's effect? If incredulous, is her attention held after a demonstration on another woman?

If the answer is yes, that does a good deal in converting PUA from a ("dirty") trick (like Fool's Mate, in chess) into a valid strategy (like Sicilian defense). If you could demonstrate valid strategies, you'd get a lot more karma out of the effort.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 20 July 2009 12:27:15AM *  4 points [-]

It's important to note that neither of those scenarios include interacting with the person being so objectified. Also note the point about the ethical considerations being different in economic transactions, e.g. thomblake's comment.

Comment author: astray 20 July 2009 06:01:33PM *  4 points [-]

What about objectifying a job candidate in an interview? Do you choose the candidate with experience, who will feel dead-ended but perform a better job? You might interpret this as a deliberate stunting of their volition (the sense of objectification I'm using), interfering with their actual goals despite their outward actions.

Any overqualified candidate that gets hired is objectified in an arguably worse way than the target of a PUA, despite the potential mitigations the economic transaction may bring about.

(Edit: Rereading this, I'm worried that I sound confrontational; I don't mean to be, but I'm not sure how else to edit without becoming too prolix.)

Comment author: jajvirta 17 July 2009 07:31:55PM 2 points [-]

..., they may be the leading originators of undesirable language trends.

What exactly are "undesirable language trends"?

Comment author: astray 17 July 2009 07:46:42PM 0 points [-]

I, admittedly, haven't read enough of the posts to know the specific cases, but I presume uptalk and quotative like rank highly.

The trends themselves are secondary, I was mostly just commenting on the supposed one to one mapping between adults being the main texters and adolescents being the supposed main originators of the trends. As thomblake notes, this may merely be an artifact introduced in the noise of reproduction and reporting.

Comment author: CronoDAS 16 July 2009 11:02:37PM *  3 points [-]

Mostly, I simply have no patience for it. Any minute spent on food preparation is a wasted minute I'll never get back. Even frying an egg is too much trouble for me to bother with, when I could just have a bowl of cold cereal instead. I do like good-tasting food, but not nearly enough to make it myself when I could just grab a slice of cheese or something and continue surfing the Internet instead.

Comment author: astray 17 July 2009 05:39:51PM 0 points [-]

This is a problem I often have myself. I will note that cooking for two ameliorates much of the pain, and cooking with two is even better.

Comment author: astray 17 July 2009 05:36:14PM 0 points [-]

I will note a shortcoming in Jerz's analysis - whether or not kids are the leading texters, they may be the leading originators of undesirable language trends.

The adolescent illusion seems tied to representativeness, with perhaps a tinge of in/out groupness.

The frequency and recency illusions show up in cases like the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon.

Comment author: CronoDAS 15 July 2009 05:17:28PM 1 point [-]

I absolutely cannot stand cooking. :(

Comment author: astray 16 July 2009 07:39:33PM *  3 points [-]

Just um... think of it as deck construction? Get your land balance right and you'll have an excellent aggro dish.

It sounded like a better suggestion in my head...

Comment author: astray 09 June 2009 02:15:42PM 3 points [-]

This is also known as a Keynesian beauty contest.

Comment author: astray 05 June 2009 06:56:24PM 0 points [-]

Lee Smolin might make for an interesting discussion on MWI.

Comment author: knb 29 May 2009 05:15:53AM 8 points [-]

I have a related motivational problem with To Do lists. I find they help me remember all the things I have to do during a day, but I seem to get the same feeling of accomplishment when I cross off some trivial errand as when I accomplish something major. The end result is that trivial errands get done, while the important tasks often get left behind.

Comment author: astray 29 May 2009 05:21:16PM 1 point [-]

A solution that I have heard work before is adding the same item multiple times. Not directly, that would be too easy, but instead, add a new task to finish an older list. The longer a task languishes, the more "tasks" you can cross off when it finally gets done.

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