Comment author: SaidAchmiz 24 December 2012 09:04:30PM *  1 point [-]

I think it was some variant of the Typical Mind Fallacy, albeit one based not only on my own preferences but on those of my friends (though of course you'd expect that I'd associate with people who have preferences similar to mine, so this does not make the fallacy much more excusable).

I think the main belief I've updated based on this is my estimate on the prevalence of my sort of individualistic, suspicious-of-groups, allergic-to-crowds, solitude-valuing outlook in the Less Wrong community, which I have adjusted strongly downward (although that adjustment has been tempered by the suspicion, confirmed by a couple of comments on this post, that people who object to things such as rituals etc. often simply don't speak up).

I have also been reminded of something I guess I knew but hadn't quite absorbed, which is that, apparently, many people in aspiring rationalist communities come from religious backgrounds. This of course makes sense given the base rates. What I didn't expect is that people would value the ritual trappings of their religious upbringing, and value them enough to construct new rituals with similar forms.

I will also add that despite this evidence that way more people like rituals than I'd have expected, and my adjustment of my beliefs about this, I am still unable to alieve it. Liking ritual, experiencing a need for and enjoyment of collectivized sacredness, is completely alien to me to the point where I am unable to imagine it.

Comment author: ataftoti 25 December 2012 04:34:50AM 3 points [-]

(although that adjustment has been tempered by the suspicion, confirmed by a couple of comments on this post, that people who object to things such as rituals etc. often simply don't speak up)

For epistemology's sake I'll speak up so you may be more confident in the suspicion...

I find these rituals, as described, to be completely uninteresting as social activities, and have a visceral negative reaction to imagining people doing this, even semi-seriously. "Group self-hacking for cohesion and bonding" is the...sort-of good way to put it I guess, because I would rather describe it as "optimistically wielding double-edged daggers forged from the Dark Arts".

Comment author: shminux 29 January 2012 07:57:25PM 7 points [-]

Downvoted for not providing even a one-sentence summary (what is that learning model?), but instead sending a reader to some long video.

Comment author: ataftoti 29 January 2012 08:38:18PM 2 points [-]

Yes, I should have had a single-sentence summary. I will add that now.

I did mention that the part I'm recommending starts at 54:00. Perhaps I should also add that from that point on the presentation of the model lasts only for 4 minutes?

In response to 2011 Survey Results
Comment author: ataftoti 04 December 2011 08:50:52PM 1 point [-]

801 people (73.5%) were atheist and not spiritual, 108 (9.9%) were atheist and spiritual

I'm curious as to how people interpreted this. Does the latter mean that one believes in the supernatural but without a god figure, e.g. buddism, new age? This question looked confusing to me at first glance.

People who believed in high existential risk were more likely to believe in global warming, more likely to believe they had a higher IQ than average, and more likely to believe in aliens (I found that same result last time, and it puzzled me then too.)

Why does it puzzle you?

Comment author: ataftoti 26 November 2011 05:38:16AM 1 point [-]

No one showed up. Reporting for the record.

Comment author: Paamayim 21 November 2011 06:27:31PM 0 points [-]

I wish you had started it this summer. I was making a 2h commute to Toronto to attend theirs when I was right on the Oakville/Sauga border.

Comment author: ataftoti 22 November 2011 12:54:31AM 0 points [-]

Does that mean I'll see you here this Friday?

Comment author: XFrequentist 15 November 2011 07:19:44PM 2 points [-]

Awesome! There are now meetups in Ottawa, Toronto, and Waterloo; an Ontario Mega Meetup draws nigh!

Comment author: ataftoti 21 November 2011 02:04:35AM 2 points [-]

I've just added another Ontario meetup: anyone in Oakville?

http://lesswrong.com/meetups/55

Comment author: ataftoti 10 October 2011 07:07:16PM *  5 points [-]

From the first episode of Dexter, season 6:

Batista: "...it's all about faith..."
Dexter: "Mmm..."
Batista: "It's something you feel, not something you can explain. It's very hard to put into words."

Dexter smiles politely, while thinking to himself: Because it makes no sense.

In response to Rationality Drugs
Comment author: Yvain 01 October 2011 02:51:43PM 16 points [-]

I've been self-experimenting with piracetam the past few months.

I usually study from a site called USMLEWorld with a selection of difficult case-based medical questions. For example, it might give a short story about a man coming into a hospital with a certain set of symptoms, and explain a little about his past medical history, and then ask multiple choice questions about what the most likely diagnosis is, or what medication would be most helpful. These are usually multi-step reasoning questions - for example, they might ask what side effect a certain patient could expect if given the ideal treatment for his disease, and before answering you need to determine what disease he has, what's the ideal treatment, and then what side effects that treatment could cause. My point is they're complicated (test multiple mental skills and not just simple recall) and realistic (similar to the problems a real doctor would encounter on the job).

I've tried comparing my performance on these questions on versus off piracetam. My usual procedure is to do twenty questions, take 2400 mg piracetam + 600 mg lecithin-derived choline, go do something fun and relaxing for an hour (about the time I've been told it takes for piracetam to take effect) then do twenty more questions. It's enough of a pain that I usually don't bother, but in about three months of occasionally doing my study this way I've got a pool of 160 questions on piracetam and 160 same-day control questions. Medicine is a sufficiently large and complicated field that I don't think three months worth of practice effects are a huge deal, and in any case I made sure to do equal piracetam and control questions every day so there wouldn't be a practiced-unpracticed confounder.

I got an average of 65% of questions right in the control condition and 60% of questions right on piracetam, but the difference was not significant.

USMLEWorld also tells you how other people did on each question; I used this information to run a different analysis controlling for the random difficulty variation in the questions. In the control condition I did 2.8% better than average, in the piracetam condition I did 1.3% worse than average; this wasn't a significant difference either.

I do worry that fatigue effects might have played a part; I tried to always rest and relax between conditions, but I was always doing piracetam after control (I wanted to have same-day comparisons to eliminate practice effects, and piracetam lasts too long for me to feel comfortable taking it first and then doing control after it wore off). But I didn't feel fatigued, and I haven't noticed huge fatigue effects when I study a lot without taking piracetam.

In any case, piracetam either has no effect on me in the reasoning domains I'm interested in, or else its effect is so small that it is overwhelmed even by relatively minor fatigue effects.

In response to comment by Yvain on Rationality Drugs
Comment author: ataftoti 02 October 2011 12:44:39AM 16 points [-]

Wouldn't a comparison between control-then-piracetam days with control-then-control days tell us a bit more about how effective piracetam is, accounting for possible fatigue?

Comment author: katydee 18 September 2011 04:57:11AM 1 point [-]

Certainly. A basic Mafia technique is examining the past play of the person you're suspicious of, then looking at whether their current play is more similar to their play as scum or their play as town. There is also wide knowledge (at least online) of moves that are generally "scummy," such as congratulating the doctor after he or she successfully protects, as these moves have been determined to be commonly used by scum. Of course, all of this is constantly evolving, since once something is generally known as a scumtell, advanced scum players avoid it. Further, different things are tells at different levels of play, which tends to make the game much more complicated than my above description might indicate.

That said, I think it's certainly possible to do better than chance-- my own record, at least of games that I can remember, is 4 wins to 1 loss, all as town (I have yet to be scum in my recent games).

Further, there are some situations where certain tactics have been determined, over wide periods of play, to be dominant, and applying these strategies gives you a very high chance to win. For instance, if the town has a doctor and a cop (and knows this) and also knows the scumgroup has no roleblocker, the best strategy is to stop voting to lynch, have the cop claim, and have the cop constantly investigate while protected by the doctor. The scum must then start hitting other targets in hopes of getting the doc. A truly advanced doctor will then, knowing the scum is doing this, not actually protect the cop but instead protect other members of the town in the hopes of blocking the scum's pseudorandom flailing, but a truly advanced scum player might anticipate this and try to kill the cop instead-- so there are mindgames all over the place, but dominant strategies are still known.

Generally, I feel like Mafia-- at least online Mafia-- is a rather good rationality exercise. I could expand this to a top-level post if there's interest.

Comment author: ataftoti 19 September 2011 03:46:31AM 0 points [-]

Do make the top-level post please. I think there is use in the making Mafia more well-known in demographics such as the one we have here.

It sounds like online Mafia is a totally different and much better game than what I've played at various icebreaker functions, camps, and times when there's a substitute teacher

In my experience the outcome of face-to-face mafia can be even more dependent on the players' skill, once you get past the newbie phase. Not just because newbies can't read others well, but I think they are also less readable due to undeveloped meta and making vastly suboptimal plays that regular scumhunting techniques do not read well. Once there is some standard in the players' moves and some meta is available, one can read much more accurately in face-to-face games than online due to factors such as tone, moments of hesitation, and body language.

And thus for a given single game, I would rather play mafia face-to-face with groups of regular players than online, though I would prefer playing online to face-to-face with a whole group of newbies.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 17 September 2011 11:36:20AM 0 points [-]

Were you the scum in any of the games?

Comment author: ataftoti 17 September 2011 08:16:54PM 0 points [-]

I was scum in none of the games.

View more: Next