Comment author: solipsist 27 May 2014 04:07:53AM 4 points [-]

This article would benefit from working through a concrete example.

If you become super-exponentially more skeptical as the mugger invokes super-exponentially higher utilities, how do you react if the mugger tears the sky asunder?

Comment author: common_law 27 May 2014 04:51:54PM 0 points [-]

You become less skeptical, but that doesn't affect the issue presented, which concerns only the evidential force of the claim itself.

If someone tears the sky asunder, you will be more inclined to believe the threat. But after a point of increasing threat, increasing it further should decrease your expectation.

Comment author: common_law 01 April 2014 09:15:06PM 2 points [-]

This essay makes a correct appraisal of Less Wrong thinking, but it denominates the position confusingly as "natural rights." The conventional designation is "moral realism," with "natural rights" denoting a specific deonotological view.

A more charitable reading than than provided by commenters would have understood that all the arguments invoked against natural rights (as well as the arguments attributing natural-rights thinking to Less Wrong) hold for other forms of moral realism, in particular utilitarianism/consequentialism. For an argument that utilitarianism is necessarily a form of moral realism (and other problems with utilitarianism) see "Utilitarianism twice fails".

In short, substitute "moral realism" for "natural rights."

Comment author: common_law 31 March 2014 06:48:00PM 0 points [-]

You're mistaken in applying the same standards to personal and deliberative decisions. The decision to enroll in cryonics is different in kind from the decision to promote safe AI for the public good. The first should be based on the belief that cryonics claims are true; the second should be based (ultimately) on the marginal value of advocacy in advancing the discussion. The failure to understand this distinction is a major failing in public rationality. For elaboration, see The distinct functions of belief and opinion.

Comment author: JonahSinick 02 September 2013 07:54:26PM 4 points [-]

I don't remember a period of my life where I didn't feel like I had a deep understanding of math, and so it's hard for me to separate out mathematical ability and cognitive ability.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience. A lot of smart people don't develop a deep understanding of math because that's not how the subject is taught and because they don't have the initiative to try to work things out themselves. With this in mind, to what do you attribute your success?

Comment author: common_law 02 September 2013 11:12:54PM 5 points [-]

that's not how the subject is taught

Hope this isn't too off-topic, but I wonder if you have any ideas about why that is.

The main impediment to many far-mode thinkers learning hard (post-calculus) math is the drill and drudgery involved. If you're going to learn hard math, it seems you should, by all means, learn it deeply. That's not the obstacle. The obstacle is that to learn math deeply, you must first learn a lot of it rotely--at least the way it's taught.

In the far-distant past, when I was in school, learning elementary calculus meant rote drilling on techniques of solving integrals. Is this still the case? Is it inevitable, or is it the result of methods of education?

The main reason "smart people" avoid math isn't that they want to avoid depth; rather, what is, at least for some of them, drudgery. Math, more than any subject I know of, seems to require a very high level of sheer diligence to get to the point where you can start thinking about it deeply. Is this inevitable?

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 15 August 2013 07:56:52AM 0 points [-]

I wouldn't have predicted that intuition thinkers would ignore situational over personality information. This may be a more cultural difference.

Right, it's probably cultural - I wouldn't assume it to be as prominent in Western holistic thinkers, either. Mostly I just brought it up to highlight the fact that the intuitive/holistic distinction may not map perfectly to the System 1/System distinction.

Comment author: common_law 20 August 2013 01:26:51AM 1 point [-]

The reason for apparent anomalies is that "holistic" thinking can involve two different styles: pre-attentive thinking and far-mode thinking. That is, you can have cognition that could be described as holistic either by being unreflective (System 1) or by engaging in far-mode forms of reflection (System 2 offloads to System 1.) In Ulric Neisser's terms, what is being called "intuitive" might reflect distinctly deeper or distinctly shallower processing than what is called analytic. I sort this out in The deeper solution to the mystery of moralism.

You needn't buy my conclusions about morality to accept the analysis of modes as related to systems 1 and 2.

Comment author: drethelin 24 April 2013 04:44:20PM 1 point [-]

Spite exists, and people do things out of spite. That doesn't mean punishment shouldn't exist. If you don't stop being friends with anyone ever you will be abused and used and forced to spend time with awful people.

Total karma isn't for you, it's for everyone else.

Comment author: common_law 24 April 2013 07:03:09PM *  1 point [-]

Total karma isn't for you, it's for everyone else.

Producing correlated rather than independent judgments of post quality, with the well-known cascading effects. The "system" deliberately introduces what I call belief-opinion confusion

Comment author: wedrifid 22 April 2013 02:19:50AM 3 points [-]

Oh wait, you're that other person with a bunch of different monikers: metaphysicist, srdiamond, etc. Sorry.

There is another (known) sockpuppet abuser that I need to downvote? Bother. I thought we just had the one.

Comment author: common_law 24 April 2013 06:16:16PM *  -2 points [-]

To Vladimir Nesov:

"A particularly unpopular posting" is not normally the issue, it's usually the systematic failure to respond to negative feedback, including by stopping to post in particular modes or at all.

I'm sorry: what's a "particular mode"? And what does stopping to post altogether have to do with multiple identities?

More to the point, what is "responding to feedback"? Posting responses to disagreement? Surely you know that depresses "karma" further. Or is "responding to feedback" a euphemism for conforming one's opinion and conduct to the community?

Mr. Nesov, you want to be a scientist; why do you post in bureaucratese? Obfuscatory writing is both cause and symptom of wretched thinking.

Edit. Changed Nessov to Nesov.

Comment author: wedrifid 22 April 2013 02:19:50AM 3 points [-]

Oh wait, you're that other person with a bunch of different monikers: metaphysicist, srdiamond, etc. Sorry.

There is another (known) sockpuppet abuser that I need to downvote? Bother. I thought we just had the one.

Comment author: common_law 24 April 2013 01:17:19AM *  -3 points [-]

Doesn't sockpuppetry occur when one poster uses another identity for deceitful purposes, usually to exaggerate his support or denigrate the quality of opposition? I think you have to consider the mens rea before accusing of sockpuppetry--unless you have a rule I haven't noticed against multiple identities. If Dmytry had been guilty of what lukeprog accused him (so cavalierly), Dmytry would have been engaging in sockpuppetry.

There are prudential reasons for having multiple identities. It's like the protection of incorporation: it limits damage. If one identity goes down in flames after a particularly unpopular posting, it doesn't exhaust my "karma" capital.

Comment author: lukeprog 22 April 2013 02:07:54AM 6 points [-]

Oh wait, you're that other person with a bunch of different monikers: metaphysicist, srdiamond, etc. Sorry.

Comment author: common_law 22 April 2013 06:23:31PM 1 point [-]

Apology accepted, but I think it's Dmytry to whom you actually owe it: he's the one you recklessly accused of deceitful self-promotion.

Comment author: lukeprog 22 April 2013 01:37:01AM *  -3 points [-]

"Found"? Didn't you write that post, Dmytry? Why wouldn't you just say so?

Comment author: common_law 22 April 2013 01:53:44AM 0 points [-]

Now there's an excellent example of rationality failure: I'm not Dmytry. Check my profile and my blogs.

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