Comment author: gattsuru 28 November 2013 09:17:39PM 6 points [-]

At least in the United States, less than 4% of households report under 5,000 USD in taxable income, while between 14% and 20% of households are defined as under the poverty line (depending on source). The official BLS numbers put it at 10.4 million people who are 'working poor', aka working or looking-for-work for half the year and also under the poverty line (pdf warning), and a little over three quarters of households under the poverty line have at least one person who fits into the "working poor" category. This is further complicated by income disparities and cost of living varying heavily from state-to-state: one can live much more comfortably on 20k in the midwest than on 40k in California.

Reading the article again, I don't quite understand why a person with two jobs complaining about a lack of time is also attending a school. Okay, it would make sense if the school is necessary for getting a better job in the future.

A little over half of off-campus college students live under the poverty line, making up a significant part of total poverty . There's a perception that a degree (and usually a four-year-degree) is necessary for any desirable "real" (non-retail non-fast food) job. Worse, there's a perception that any degree is both necessary and sufficient for long-term "real" jobs. So you do get a lot of people trying to take classes and make ends meet at the same time, even if the system eventually shoves them out the door with a lot of student loans and a liberal arts degree that barely improves their options (or not even that: low-income folk who drop out get screwed even worse).

It's probably not the average case, but it does make up a non-trivial portion of the total.

((On the other hand, many of the issues raised in the linked blog post show problems related to information access. "Sliding scale" payments usually mean nearly free for a low-income mother, in the odd case where she doesn't qualify for Medicaid. The documentation necessary to set up even a post-9/11 bank account is less than that necessary to get most forms of public assistance including WIC or TANF, while there are other complex reasons people in poverty avoid bank accounts. It's quite possible to cook basic staples with nothing more than a microwave, a plate, and a couple pieces of silverware, but that's not really something that's taught in Home Ec or cookbooks. And the depression self-diagnosis is... not robust.))

Comment author: graviton 28 November 2013 11:24:07PM 7 points [-]

another emerging issue is that degrees can have a negative utility these days. if your degree can't land you a "real" job, and employers who would otherwise take you now see you as 'overqualified', your options are more limited than if you never went to college in the first place.

In response to No need for gravity?
Comment author: graviton 30 July 2013 12:17:39AM *  1 point [-]

Many of the refutations offered didn't actually contradict what I had in mind at all. For instance, I could come up with a (wrong) theory vaguely similar to general relativity, and showing how that's wrong =/= showing general relativity is wrong, similarly, the link about La Sage's theory is not some iron-clad refutation of this one.

However, I wasn't exactly confident that it was right; it actually bothered me that I couldn't come up with why I was wrong. I was mostly expecting to find out why my idea was wrong by running it by others who might already know more than me on the subject. I did wind up getting that (gravitational lensing clearly tears it apart). You guys certainly saved me the effort, either way, which freed me up to focus on actual useful efforts. This sort of effect is actually why I posted here before putting in all that work on something I strongly suspected would be a waste of time.

The main reason I'm commenting here again, is because of the total lack of civility of some of the replies. The negative karma score is probably what the post deserves, and I probably shouldn't expect anything else posting so far from my own specializations. However, there is a certain sting that comes with being wrong, and it's not that difficult to avoid adding to it when pointing out someone's errors. Sadly, the best example of being as rude as possible about it is actually the post that included what I was looking for.

Compare the difference between:

Have you considered gravitational lensing, or gravitational time dilation? Your theory seems to be incompatible with these observable and well-documented phenomena.

and:

Good start. I know how tempting it is to talk about crackpot physical theories, believe you me I do, but you've gotta contain yourself. Seriously, you're embarrassing me, and I'm not even you.

Since you failed #37, among others, I'll help you out. Your theory predicts that what we call gravity depends not on mass but on something like solid angle, which is a measure of how big one object appears from another. If we're talkin bout heaven here objects are spherical, so solid angle (and thus your theoretical force) depends only on the size of the object (radius) and distance. Guess what? It turns out that gravity actually depends on something called mass and energy. Newtonian gravity is linear in mass, but your theory is not (you can work out the relationship between proton count and surface area of a nucleus or something along those lines, tee hee). This linearity has been experimentally verified.

Anyway, does your theory have anything to say about this or this? Nope! It turns out gravity isn't as simple as pushing and pulling. Time and energy and fahoosalah are involved too. You might know about these things if you take physics courses.

LessWrong is partly about learning how to be wrong. You're wrong. LessWrong teaches to acknowledge when you don't understand something, to listen to the knowledge of those who do, and to not post silly crackpot theories that don't even. 0/10 will not think about again.

In response to No need for gravity?
Comment author: CronoDAS 17 October 2012 10:31:14AM *  4 points [-]

Is this consistent with the fact that my father can demonstrate the gravitational attraction between two lead spheres in our basement?

Also, general relativity has consequences that are relevant to GPS satellites.

Anyway, you'd need equations for any of this to be really meaningful. I suspect that, if you tried to model this mathematically, you'd end up with something that basically matches Newtonian gravity.

EDIT: It turns out it doesn't, to the detriment of a theory of this kind.

I'm thinking no one object within a galaxy is emitting more dark energy than it shields its neighbors from. There is some galaxy-to-galaxy shielding, but it is very weak due to the amount of dark energy that can pass right through without hitting anything.

Which would imply that, on net, two galaxies would tend to attract each other, even if only weakly, because they do shield at least somewhat. I don't think this actually gets anywhere, other than simply pasting something akin to Newtonian gravity on top of an all-pervading repulsive force, such as Einstein's cosmological constant - which is what we already have.

Anyway, if it disagrees with Einstein, it's probably wrong, and if it agrees, then who cares?

Comment author: graviton 17 October 2012 11:00:24AM 0 points [-]

Yes. Why would scaling it down more than I did make it disappear?

The only predictive difference I can think of is that with this model there would be regions in the universe where greater dark energy flow would result in a greater gravitational constant.

I would want to be more confident that it was meaningful before taking on a whole other branch of science at a professional level. And if I was already approaching it on that level, I would take it to a physics journal and not a blog.

No need for gravity?

-7 graviton 17 October 2012 10:22AM

I don’t know where else to go with this idea.  I’m not a physicist and it could be obviously wrong for some reason I’m missing, but it seems to me that there is a small chance that I’ve figured out how to remove one of the fundamental forces from our models of the universe; gravity, to be specific.

So we’ve all heard of dark energy, the force driving the accelerating expansion of the universe.  Presumably it comes from somewhere, perhaps from every piece of matter in the universe, perhaps only stars, perhaps only black holes, but as long as it’s not all coming from a single source, it’s probably coming from something that is relatively common, and primarily found within galaxies.  And if I magically came to KNOW that it does all come from one source, I would do very little beyond deleting a few arrows in my diagrams to change this post. 

And as the Hubble deep field scans showed, there are A LOT of galaxies in any direction you look in (at least from Earth).  So, countless galaxies in all directions are emitting dark matter, with tiny rays from each one hitting our galaxy, as well as galaxies in every other direction. 

Of course our galaxy doesn’t have a plastic shell around it for dark energy to hit.  It’s specific things in the galaxy that get hit by specific emissions of dark energy, just like it’s specific objects that emit those emissions.

Here are some galaxies.  Beyond the ones shown, there are more and more in all directions for as far as anyone knows so far.  Please note that nothing in any of these diagrams is drawn to scale.   


  Figure 1

Any one of them emits dark energy pretty uniformly in all directions, as it does with light.
Figure 2

Given the sheer number of other galaxies off in all directions, the total dark energy hitting a galaxy would look something like this.  The magnitude of the dark energy forces coming in from the rest of the universe ought to be a lot more than what our one little galaxy puts out. 

Now let’s look inside this galaxy, at a single solar system.  Dark energy converges from all directions, as at the perimeter of the galaxy, since the galaxy is mostly empty space, and (I’m presuming) a more or less negligible amount is added from other objects within the galaxy. 


Now let’s consider a single planet within the solar system

The sun casts a shadow in the dark energy field; some of the dark energy headed in the direction of our planet strikes the sun along the way and never makes it to the planet.  To a lesser extent, the planet shields the sun as well.  As the planet revolves around the sun, there is always a void in the otherwise all-pervasive dark energy field in the direction of the sun.  As rudimentary as these diagrams are, you might as well just rotate your monitor if you really need a visual (keeping the screen on the same plane).

Each dark energy vector has an equal opposite cancelling it out, except in the shadow.  Any other imbalance would be the same for the planet as it is for the star, and therefore would not alter their positions relative to each other.  Even if it was all coming from one direction. 

The planet always has one region that is only hit with the sun’s own dark energy emissions (if it has any), whereas all other sides are being hit with dark energy from all of the rest of the universe (in that direction), hence the illusion of gravity. 

Similarly, a supermassive black hole at the center of a galaxy would cast a dark energy shadow on everything else in the galaxy, so the net push of all the dark energy vectors hitting a given star is toward the center of the galaxy, keeping it in orbit.  This would be true of any given moment; the direction of the greatest push rotates around, but it is always toward the black hole. 

The planets around the star are shielded by the black hole roughly the same amount as the star is, but they are much more strongly affected by the shielding from the star than the black hole is. 

Now, consider 2 galaxies:

Each emits a little bit of dark energy of its own, and is mostly empty space so that much of the dark energy from other galaxies beyond it passes right through.  I'm thinking no one object within a galaxy is emitting more dark energy than it shields its neighbors from.  There is some galaxy-to-galaxy shielding, but it is very weak due to the amount of dark energy that can pass right through without hitting anything.  This would be consistent with the galaxies spreading out from each other without being ripped apart by the force causing them to spread.  So, between galaxies, there is a repulsive effect, while within galaxies, there is primarily an effect of shielding from the all-pervasive repulsion from dark energy. 

 

Comment author: TGM 10 July 2012 09:41:00PM 3 points [-]

Certainly in the circles I'm from in the UK, less/fewer is very much used as a signal. I don't think I could use the 'wrong' one without getting corrected if the audience is sufficiently large.

Question: In casual conversation, does the proportion of the time I am corrected increase with the number of people as if they each corrected as iid Bernoulli random variables? (i.e. if I get corrected 1/2 of the time with one other person, then it's 3/4 of the time with 2, 7/8ths of the time with 3 etc.)

I suspect that I would be corrected more often than that model predicts in larger groups, because there are more people to signal status to.

Comment author: graviton 17 October 2012 12:21:36AM 0 points [-]

Or inversely, they could be less likely to correct you in a larger group because they assume someone else will do it.

Comment author: Raemon 13 January 2012 03:13:54PM *  0 points [-]

I suspect that making it about rationality might be kind of a mixing utilitons with warm fuzzies situation, where you end up doing both poorly.

I understand the point, but I'm not sure what you're saying it should be about?

Mailing list will probably start early next week.

Comment author: graviton 16 October 2012 09:40:51PM 0 points [-]

Sorry about the very lengthy delay in response.

In my experiences there has always been (at minimum) a surface layer of magical nonsense, but it has always seemed that the real point was just bonding with other individuals; sharing the aggrandized experience with them for the sake of feeling like you're part of the same thing.

That sort of thing was (I imagine) a relatively ubiquitous feature of ancestral tribes, and I suspect that that led to our neural pathways evolving in such a way that sharing in ritualized experiences is a vital part of how we come to feel like we are truly a part of the group/tribe/etc.

And magical nonsense can be made in such a way that it parallels the situation of anything from one person to the whole group in order to... gently trick a person into thinking about something you think they really ought to think about without overtly putting them on the spot. Also, if you're the one making up the magical nonsense, and you're completely misguided about what another person's situation is, more abstract ways of communicating essentially leave infinite degrees of freedom in terms of reasonable-seeming-interpretations. This way, you could think you're giving one specific message to the whole group, when really everyone walks away with a completely different significant-feeling message in their head, and yours was actually far less relevant than you thought it was.

And then everyone feels refreshed and closer to the others involved after sharing in the experience.

Of course, people really, really, REALLY, should be intelligent rationalists on their own if they're going to get into that sort of behavior, since it is arguably a recipe for a cult.

Comment author: TraderJoe 09 October 2012 06:55:16AM 6 points [-]

I often add "I believe" to sentences to clarify that I am not certain.

"Did you feed the dog?" "Yes"

and

"Did you feed the dog?" "I believe so"

have different meanings to me. I parse the first as "I am highly confident that I fed the dog" and the second as "I am unable to remember for sure whether I fed the dog, but I am >50% confident I did so."

Comment author: graviton 16 October 2012 09:14:15PM 1 point [-]

It always seems to me that any little disclaimer about my degree of certainty seems to disproportionately skew the way others interpret my statements.

For instance, if I'm 90% sure of something, and carefully state it in a way that illustrates my level of confidence (as distinct from 100%), people seem to react as if I'm substantially less than 90% confident. In other words, any acknowledgement of less-than-100%-confidence seems to be interpreted as not-very-confident-at-all.

Comment author: graviton 16 October 2012 08:18:51PM 46 points [-]

I sometimes go digging for quartz. This includes camping out with friends the night before, then getting dirty, digging in the mud, and finding neat little things all day. All in all, I really enjoy the experience. But then I bring home pounds and pounds of the stuff and really only enjoy having a few of the pieces that really jump out to me as being exceptional.

Most people have never gone to dig for quartz, and don't have nearly the amount of it that I do. On top of that, many of my friends attribute all sorts of magical nonsense to the stones. So, the way I enjoy the rest of it is giving it away. Any of the pieces I bothered to bring home seem really beautiful and amazing to people who don't have endless pounds of the stuff cluttering up their room. I'm often told months/years after giving one out that the recipient still has it and cherishes it and keeps it in some special place where they always see it, which provides another little burst of me enjoying the thing.

Similarly, when someone comes into my room for the first time and is amazed by the collection as a whole, I get a little bit of joy out of their amazement. Every time I think I've run out of ones that are worthy of gifting, someone notices one in particular that they really love, and I say "you can have it" and they jump for joy and tell me I'm the greatest person ever.

I feel like this is a good example of "correctly having" something. Considering that in my whole life I've probably spent less than $50 dollars getting all of those crystals, and that I consider the experience of digging them up to have been easily worth that, it has proven to be one of the most effective ways I have ever used money (in terms of making myself happier). And all without actually believing that they have magic powers or anything like that.

Comment author: graviton 13 January 2012 12:33:14PM *  0 points [-]

I suspect that making it about rationality might be kind of a mixing utilitons with warm fuzzies situation, where you end up doing both poorly. However the person(s) leading the thing damn well better be rationalists. Probably everyone else involved as well.

I exist within a subculture where rituals are kind of normal, and other things I would expect to make this audience cringe. I violently rejected it all while reading the sequences because the value I had perceived in it was insane. Around the time I finished them I began to understand the actual value of it, and I really think the sequences provide more than enough to safely engage in this sort of thing.

My first few attempts at commenting on this turned into giant walls of text and I think I might have some things to contribute to the discussions in that mailing list.