Comment author: polymathwannabe 26 July 2014 06:52:44AM -2 points [-]

where else are they supposed to go to tickle humans?

There is a whiff of aggrieved entitlement in that sentence.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 26 July 2014 07:13:23AM *  14 points [-]

No, it's confused desperation. Note that confusing "confused desperation" for "aggrieved entitlement" is a good way to treat the disadvantaged as if they were oppressors, which is the opposite of helping.

Look, I'm going to pierce the metaphor for a minute, here.

I'm not talking about sex. I'm not owed sex, I get that. I'm also not owed compassion or companionship or friendliness. I get that.

You're telling a member of a highly social species that he's not owed any of the socially-approved and advertised paths to socialization or validation.

I get that.

Do you?

Comment author: Lumifer 26 July 2014 01:29:04AM 5 points [-]

You can't ask someone if they consent to being hit on.

You can. Hitting on someone is not a single action, it's a process spread out in time. It's easy (and quite common) to start by "testing the waters" or, as someone said in this thread, waving the tentacles in the general direction. The point is to give the human a chance to signal interest or lack of interest and, if the latter, gracefully withdraw. Of course this doesn't work by explicitly asking for consent, you have to be at least somewhat clueful in reading signals.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 26 July 2014 03:54:02AM 1 point [-]

Stretching the metaphor: Suppose that many humans respond to having tentacles waved at them (whether or not they touch) by threatening to cut them off.

Suppose that Martians have a response that causes their tentacle-barbs to grow longer and pointier and stingier whenever they perceive a threat to their tentacles.

Where does this process lead?

Comment author: PeerGynt 25 July 2014 07:17:49PM *  2 points [-]

OK. Good point. I am going to specify that in this thought experiment, tickling is only effective if there is no explicit consent.

Edit: See definition of tickling here: http://lesswrong.com/lw/klx/ethics_in_a_feedback_loop_a_parable/b5ft?context=1#b5ft

Also, note that this is a thought experiment. The point of this comment is not to make a claim about the truth value of the statement "flirting is only effective if there is no explicit consent", but to explore the ethical consequences of a world in which this is true.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 26 July 2014 03:51:46AM *  11 points [-]

Actually, I think you're doing the analogy a disservice.

What you want to say is, tickling is how Martians ask for consent.

I.e., Martians ultimately want to get humans onto the mothership for experimentation, and humans actually enjoy being on the mothership (with some Martians, anyways), but in order to do so they have to communicate with the human - and the only way to do that is to tickle their ears with their tentacles (hey, it's how Martians communicate.) And green Martians have stinging barbs on their tentacles.

So the first act a Martian has to perform is to get consent to tickle the human's ears with its tentacles - AND THE ONLY WAY IT CAN DO THAT IS BY TICKLING THE HUMAN'S EARS WITH ITS TENTACLES.

Comment author: Adele_L 25 July 2014 09:52:45PM 9 points [-]

Some ideas:

  • It might be good to have designated spaces where Green Martians can practice tickling participating humans. As more and more of these spaces become available, it becomes more and more socially unacceptable for Green Martians to tickle humans elsewhere. Obviously, for this to work, there would need to be a sufficiently high number of humans willing to participate.

  • For me, a large part of minor annoyances is anticipating minor annoyances. Imagining myself as a human, I might get really sick of stung randomly throughout the day. It would be easier to deal with the occasional sting if they were constrained to certain times of the day or to certain environments. For example, I think it would be good to make a taboo against tickling at work. The blue martians can always tickle later, and the humans would be able to work without having to worry about getting stung.

  • Now imagining myself as a Green Martian, I feel like I would naturally feel bad about stinging humans, and try to avoid it for the most part. This anxiety would be significantly worse if the humans visibly disliked me for stinging them. But I would be desperate for someone who could help me become a Blue Martian. Learning the Blue Martian's techniques would be very tempting... Something that might be a good alternative would be if there were humans working with the Blue Martians, finding ways to make the techniques more robust.

  • Also, studying the transformation process more carefully would probably be very helpful for everyone.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 26 July 2014 03:47:21AM 3 points [-]

For me, a large part of minor annoyances is anticipating minor annoyances. Imagining myself as a human, I might get really sick of stung randomly throughout the day. It would be easier to deal with the occasional sting if they were constrained to certain times of the day or to certain environments. For example, I think it would be good to make a taboo against tickling at work. The blue martians can always tickle later, and the humans would be able to work without having to worry about getting stung.

So, one problem with this:

Suppose that there are such places, called Tickling Bars, where Martians can tickle humans who have come pretty much to be tickled. BUT. Even humans that go to Tickling Bars only want to be tickled by the largest green martians, because those tend to have the least stingy tentacles. And green martians recognize that there's a limited amount of Tickling Bars, so the bigger ones tend to band together and make the smaller ones feel really uncomfortable. This means that smaller green Martians, who don't have as much of a 'pack', are typically very unwelcome in Tickling Bars, and in fact the only place they ever SEE a human is at work.

They know that tickling at work is taboo, but where else are they supposed to go to tickle humans? The last time one tried a Tickle Bar, the human that he offered to tickle threatened to get the other martians to cut its tentacles off.

Comment author: shminux 23 July 2014 09:10:53PM 3 points [-]

Probably, though I am not sure that "a former television executive" counts as being in the publishing business.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 23 July 2014 09:35:31PM 2 points [-]

Fair enough, but I think for 'people with connections to get something pushed through', it still counts.

Comment author: shminux 23 July 2014 08:43:55PM *  11 points [-]

Interesting analysis, and somewhat surprising.

The number of people who finish a multi-chapter fan-fiction is, surprisingly, almost always 40-60% of the number who clicked on the first chapter, with the very best reaching 60%, and the misspelled, grammar-free, plot-free, alphabet-soup-vomit of ten-year-olds retaining about 40%.

Huh, that's unexpected.

perhaps 4,000 readers finished it.

I understand the calculation, but it seems very low, are you sure you haven't missed anything?

So what actually happened was that a moderately-popular fanfiction that had been read by a few thousand people was reported on in a way that misled publishers into thinking that it had millions of readers, when really, it just had an unusually large number of chapters.

If this was enough to get published, Worm would have been by now (not a fanfic, much better story, more readers, active online discussion and fanfic groups, large enough to be serialized into 10+ volumes). Yet from what I understand Wildbow has not had a single editor/publisher approach him yet.

I suspect that, while an inflated number of readers might bring a story to the attention of a decision maker in the publishing business, it is but one of many many factors going into a major decision like publishing a manuscript. 50SoG was simply lucky to get picked up, and lucky to do well. So the "self-fulfilling prophesy" bit is a big stretch.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 23 July 2014 09:01:34PM 5 points [-]

50SoG was also written by someone IN the publishing business. So, once again, it's not what you know; it's who you know.

Comment author: Skeptityke 23 July 2014 04:58:12PM 6 points [-]

This seems highly exploitable.

Anyone here want to try to use these bogus numbers to get a publisher to market their own fanfiction?

Comment author: ialdabaoth 23 July 2014 08:49:50PM 2 points [-]

Yes. What's the market for a Transformers / GI Joe / MASK / Robotech / G-Force / Star Blazers crossover?

Comment author: Crude_Dolorium 16 July 2014 12:40:33AM 5 points [-]

It's heartwarming to see off-the-cuff SQL that includes foreign key constraints.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 16 July 2014 01:46:39AM *  8 points [-]

It's heartwarming to see off-the-cuff SQL that includes foreign key constraints.

Heartwarming enough to offer me a job? ;)

EDIT: Downvoted? Ouch...

Comment author: ialdabaoth 17 November 2013 04:53:21AM 21 points [-]

In that case, I need to be clear about probabilities.

I am pretty certain (p > ~0.97) that someone is doing this.

I have very strong suspicions (p > 0.75) that it's Eugine Nier, based on two reasonably strong facts:

  1. The first instance of suspicious block downvoting happened within a few minutes after this spat - in which, I freely admit, I do NOT come out smelling like a rose. After that argument, I began noticing that EVERYTHING I posted was downvoted - and it has not stopped since.

  2. about 80% of the block downvotes happen within a few minutes of him showing up in the 'recent posts' sideboard after his not having posted for a few days.

I can conceive of several alternate hypotheses, but none of them are particularly convincing in light of that pattern.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 06 July 2014 06:19:59PM *  4 points [-]

So, I made a hypothesis that turned out to be (barring very strange circumstances) uncomfortably correct. I'm currently going through this thread, trying to figure out how to update my entire social prediction and execution model - an aspect of my intelligence which has always suffered notorious levels of under-performance. Would anyone care to advise?

Comment author: William_Quixote 03 July 2014 09:17:25PM 6 points [-]

I'm not knowledgeable about summits / conferences. Is $600 a little or a lot? It sounds like a lot to me when I convert it into other ways to spend the money, but maybe this is normal for these things...

Comment author: ialdabaoth 05 July 2014 05:31:12PM 3 points [-]

$600 is not a lot at all. Most business and non-profit summits easily pass the $2K range, and that's without throwing in deliberate ostentatious signaling.

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