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In response to Satisfaction Levers
Comment author: ChristianKl 12 February 2017 09:07:37AM 2 points [-]

It seems to me like you make quite definite claims about how desires get acquired without referencing any scientific work about the subject.

Have you read the relevant work and just don't want to go through the work of adding citations, or is the post mainly speculation?

If I have a stimulus of a physical sensation like a tense throat that's tense due to emotions that I can't immediately label trying out different stimuli isn't the only way to deal with them. Eugine Gendlin's Focusing is another way to get at the underlying meaning of the emotions.

You can't reason your way to where anxiety comes from but you can feel into it and verbalize the cause with a process like Focusing.

Comment author: ig0r 14 February 2017 06:37:06PM *  0 points [-]

To me, this felt more like speculation which was certainly informed by many things I've read in the past but nothing particular came to mind with the exception of the obvious reference to Deleuze. A kind of applied Deleuzian psychiatry, although I'm not sure he would agree with this sort of application. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Oedipus#Desiring_machines_and_social_production)

Good point regarding Focusing, and I do agree that it is closely related. I've only listened to the audiobook, is there a work by Gendlin you would recommend? Upon reflection, it seems one of the main insights I was trying to point at here is the lack of logical connection between the qualia of desire and the object it seeks (the machine it seeks to connect to, in D&G's terminology). The mental act of seeking out levers to pull would be equivalent to Focusing here, I think?

In response to Satisfaction Levers
Comment author: RomeoStevens 12 February 2017 03:33:57AM 2 points [-]

This is quite a wonderful frame that makes it easier to think about several things I was having trouble thinking clearly about. Thank you.

Related to 1. You can get a double whammy by having your mindfulness practice be a CNS training routine as well eg yoga, feldenkrais, alexander method etc.

Related to 2. Creativity can be directly trained, I link this so much I should just turn it into a post: https://vimeo.com/89936101

Related to 3. Ruthless prioritization has many downstream positive effects when trained directly. I recommend Marie Kondo, The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up.

1 helps a lot with 4 as well, as you start seeing what fear is made of, which has several large milestones in positive impact on quality of life AFAICT.

Comment author: ig0r 14 February 2017 06:23:20PM 0 points [-]

Yes that Cleese piece is great, thanks for sharing.

Satisfaction Levers

4 ig0r 11 February 2017 10:54PM

(Cross-posted on my blog: http://garybasin.com/satisfaction-levers/)

I believe gnawing and uncomfortable sensations (nihilism, restlessness, etc) that one may not quite understand how to resolve are a manifestation of poorly understood desires, and there are concrete practices one can develop to help understand and resolve these sensations. We’ve come to associate certain sensations in our stomach with the idea of hunger because they are resolved by putting certain types of objects into our mouth and chewing. What if we didn’t know about food — how would we understand “hunger”? What does this say about a complex sensation like “anxiety”?

The human mind can be thought of as a machine that produces and satisfies desires. We become familiar with these desires from birth. When we exit the womb we don’t yet know how to breathe, but it is likely that we already desire to. It appears as though the mere exposure to air is sufficient to make the newborn aware that “breathing in” is an option available to it, and that upon doing so it comes to realize that this breathing thing satisfies some gnawing feeling (a desire for air). This is the mind’s first exposure to a “satisfaction lever” — an affordance for desire-satisfaction. As the mind matures it becomes aware of (produces!) new desires for itself: mother, food, stimulus, friends, approval, status, money, expression, meaning, etc. We create habits, both “good” and “bad”, that create their own desires. Pulling satisfaction levers gives us access to objects of desire — the things that can be taken from outside the organism and brought in — which temporarily satisfy some desire.

This may feel strange, but it seems that there is no a priori relationship between the sensations of desire and the corresponding objects that satisfy them. From our point of view, it feels intuitive that the hunger sensation in the stomach would logically be related to a desire for food. But as we can see with children, they often have little sense of when they are hungry or thirsty or sleepy and often adults must force some levers upon them — often in response to crankiness or general antisocial behavior on the part of the child. Over many repetitions, as the sensations of desire present themselves and are then followed by their satisfaction with a familiar pattern of objects — available through the pulling of satisfaction levers — the mind makes the association stronger and stronger until it just “is”. It is hard to imagine alternative manifestations of the feeling of hunger.

As the mind matures and continues to manufacture new desires, we must continue to seek the satisfaction levers that satiate them. Without a parent paying attention to our whining and offering us potential levers, we must seek them out on our own. This becomes especially tricky with desires that only rear their heads every once in awhile rather than on a daily basis. The ability to satisfy feelings of having low energy with exercise is a non-intuitive one, but once a habit is established the lever becomes one we can easily reach for because we know it’s there. However, often minds find themselves experiencing frustrating sensations that they don’t associate with obvious levers. Feelings described with words such as anxiety, restlessness, ennui, or nihilism may fall into this category. To expect to reason from the raw sensations to the corresponding action which would satisfy them seems exceptionally difficult. A more bountiful approach is to find some potential satisfaction levers to pull and pay attention to what happens to these ill-defined sensations.

Furthermore, there seems to be a capacity where we can seek out new levers, even if it is not clear what they may be for. Sometimes we accidentally pull a lever that gives us some unexpected feeling of relief or pleasure. This seems to be the satisfaction of a desire that one was not aware of or could not previously articulate. This is an important feeling. When this happens, one can take note of the relationship and begin building a list of “non-obvious satisfaction levers”. Then, periodically, one can scan this list. By allowing the mind to imagine pulling on one of these levers, it can feel out whether at that time it would satisfy some hidden, poorly understood desire. At the same time, by starting to map which levers satisfy which kinds of feelings, we are able to better understand and describe these amorphous feelings of desire.

Some ideas for satisfaction levers that may relate to complex, hard to describe desires:

  1. Cultivating presence and mindfulness: paying attention to the moment on a purely physical level rather than to thoughts and ideas generated
  2. Creating objects: anything from abstract art to software to social experiences
  3. Destroying objects: getting rid of stuff, tearing something down into its parts for potential reuse, clearing away or reorganizing space
  4. Taking physical or social risks: seeking out unfamiliar manifestations of fear
Comment author: moridinamael 22 January 2017 03:44:39AM 2 points [-]

This blog doesn't appear to be active anymore, but it contains a lot of helpful ideas from an LWer who was an experienced meditator.

The blog led me to buy the book The Mind Illuminated which is a very clear, thorough, secular and neurologically sound (where possible) manual on attaining classical enlightenment through vipassana+mindfulness. I'm currently trying to follow its program as well as I can.

Comment author: ig0r 29 January 2017 05:18:21AM 1 point [-]

+1 for the suggestions made by others. I will ping the blog writer about this post to see if he's interested in reaching out.

You may also want to look at Daniel Ingram and his MCTB community

Comment author: jopil 29 December 2016 12:59:37PM 0 points [-]

Hi. If you have access to the actual data, try to transfer the time domain diagram to frequency domain. Identify frequencies patterns. Search for possible IF components. They are there (Use TRIZ, or intuition. Your name suggests that you may have hear about TRIZ already). Demodulate by the aid of the 1st and 2nd possible harmonics. Extract the modulator-pattern. Look for phase-shifts of it. If there, that's a complex system.

Comment author: ig0r 01 January 2017 02:13:37AM 0 points [-]

That's also just the tip of the iceberg. This book is a good guide to identifying and predicting complex time series behavior: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521529026/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So I guess this is along the lines of: try prediction techniques that are designed to work on complex systems and see how it goes.

This doesn't work when you don't have enough data to do so, of course.

Comment author: ig0r 01 January 2017 02:00:20AM 0 points [-]

On the topic of financial markets and aggregation of signals, there is actually a lot of ML-based signal aggregation going on within trading companies. A common structure is having specialized individuals or teams develop predictive signals (for publicly traded securities) and then have them aggregated into a single meta-prediction (typically a "microprice", or theoretical price) which is then used for order placement.

A couple anecdotes: 1. There is some publicly available story about a high frequency KOSPI options desk that made a substantial improvement in P/L after adding a Random Forest in their signal aggregation logic. Eventually, this became the difference between making and losing money 2. Accurate up until about a year or two ago, I believe one of the top 10 worldwide trading firms was using a simple average as their aggregation mechanism for most of their trading. This would include averaging effectively redundant signals which could be easily identified as such.

In response to comment by ig0r on Finding slices of joy
Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 06 December 2016 12:45:37PM 1 point [-]

Yeah, I've done Vipassana which I'm pretty sure has made the practice a lot easier.

Comment author: ig0r 07 December 2016 10:25:16PM 0 points [-]

Nice. Just curious, how much did you do, and why'd you stop (if you did)?

Comment author: ig0r 06 December 2016 12:21:23AM 0 points [-]

This is derivative of meditative insight practice. You may be interested in looking into Vipassana practice. With some time spent building concentration skills this kind of sensation noticing practice is far more powerful (think, LSD-like power) and can be extended to get you a lot more than just joy

Comment author: benelliott 03 March 2011 06:39:51PM 1 point [-]

I'm still interested, what changes would you suggest?

Comment author: ig0r 18 March 2011 01:28:27AM 0 points [-]

Sorry for the slow reply, want to do this over email? im gbasin at gmail

Comment author: benelliott 04 February 2011 04:43:07PM 9 points [-]

Well now I want to test this. Do we have anyone here who thinks they know a thing or two about the stock market? If so would they be amenable to an experiment?

I'm thinking that they would agree not to look at any stock price information for a day (viewing all the other news they want). At the end of the day they are presented with some possible sets of market closes, all but one of which of which are fake, and we see if they can reliably find the right one.

Comment author: ig0r 26 February 2011 10:29:17PM 2 points [-]

I will participate if you'd like to try, there are some problems with the experiment though

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