Comment author: insufferablejake 18 February 2013 08:43:48AM 1 point [-]

Selection is the key to social harmony. Surround yourself with true friends who love you just as you are. If you don't see any around, quest for them.

Bryan Caplan

Comment author: insufferablejake 26 January 2013 10:52:44AM 0 points [-]

Most of the comments on this thread are about people who seem to find this useful or think that this will make a difference positively. While I think the idea interesting, and would like to try it out, I am one of those who don't seem to like really bright lighting. In fact, at work, I've had some of the overhead lights removed to make it generally less bright ambiently. I tend to suffer from eyestrain or seem to get a headache, though now that I think about it, I am not sure if this was because the over head lights were reflecting badly off of my computer screen or not.

Anyway, I'd like to get the opinions of and comments from people who generally turn off lights at work (such that the ambient light source is behind the monitor) , and likewise, even better if they have tried this out.

Comment author: OrphanWilde 21 January 2013 01:31:13AM 5 points [-]

A visual representation of objects in a programming language context must necessarily be complete descriptions of those objects; either you're switching rapidly between multiple levels of abstraction in order to perform your work, or the sheer volume of screenspace necessary to encapsulate even relatively simple programming instructions results in difficulty comprehending program flow as a singular process.

Or, to put it another way - open up a simple paint program, and try drawing out a visual-programming approach to a very simple programming problem - say, reading the first twenty entries from a database and selecting a tuple based on the highest-valued column. Make the fake program logically complete; it should encapsulate every operation and data structure necessary (although you can presuppose libraries to interact with, it should represent those libraries, as well).

This is actually a problem I've been working on on-and-off for my company; we're trying to implement a comprehensive visual editor for our program, instead of the multiple-layers-of-abstraction visual editor that exists today. As it transpires, given the vast amount of information that needs to be available, symbol encoding - memorizing the meanings of large numbers of symbols in the context of the UI - is the only effective means we've found. And at that point you're just writing a scripting language using different letters than the English ones, and what's the point?

Comment author: insufferablejake 23 January 2013 09:54:28AM 0 points [-]

Makes sense, thank you for the elaboration.

At this point I would like to make the comparison to flow charts and their interpreters (us), but even in this case, when we look at a flowchart (with the purpose of implementing something) we mentally substitute the boxes and flows with the code/libraries/interfaces for them. Then following this thought, if we had a compiler that could do the same when fed a diagram ie. parse it to generate the appropriate code, we'd be getting somewhere, I suppose. But as it stands I see why a diagram might not be enough to formally encapsulate all the data and state needed for execution.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 20 January 2013 02:18:17PM *  4 points [-]

(I downoted both comments. OrphanWilde's assertion was mostly meaningless and given without substantiation/clarification, and your reply engaged it on object level instead of pointing that out (or silently downvoting), sustaining a flawed mode of discussion. Being "non-inflammatory" is an insufficiently strict standard, a conversation should be sane.)

Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 03:24:29PM *  0 points [-]

OrphanWilde's assertion was mostly meaningless and given without substantiation/clarification

I agree.

your reply engaged it on object level instead of pointing that out (or silently downvoting), sustaining a flawed mode of discussion.

Can you elaborate what you mean by 'object level'?

Also, I am kind of perplexed here -- you don't approve of my deciding to react to a seemingly vague statement, which was made with the intent of getting OrphanWilde to perhaps clarify himself? I realize that I phrased my reply badly, starting with a negation was counter productive, but still.

Let me clarify here, I do not care so much about the down vote, as much as I do about being engaged in a conversation.

Comment author: wedrifid 20 January 2013 01:55:31PM 6 points [-]

In case of a down vote on something that seems reasonable

Perhaps it merely indicates that the voter doesn't agree about the reasonableness. I neither voted on nor---until now---read your comment but I do note that in general many people write things that they (evidently) consider reasonable but which I consider utter nonsense and other have vehemently disagreed with (what seem to me) to be reasonable statements by myself and others. Neither objective reasonableness (to the extent that such a thing exists) nor the belief of the author will force another to perceive it as reasonable.

and/or is non-inflammatory

Not especially inflammatory, true. I note however that you opened with a contradiction, "No.". That has a clear meaning of asserting the falsity of its parent. If the parent is (perceived to be) correct then a negation may be considered sufficient to downvote the comment with or without reading the remainder.

it'd be informative if someone left a note as to why it was being down voted.

This is a true statement. Another true statement is "Writing declarations of downvotes can be perceived as a nuisance by third parties and promote emnity or at very least dowvnoting by the downvoted author. This is a negative consequence for the downvoter, who is not obliged to abandon his or her anonymity if they don't chose to."

Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 03:09:08PM 0 points [-]

Fair enough.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 January 2013 01:33:28PM 0 points [-]

(I meant “context” not “comment” BTW -- fixed that.)

Does a link to a comic have a place in this forum?

Yes. I've posted such links myself. But that particular one seems to me to have very dubious topicality.

In response to comment by [deleted] on The Level Above Mine
Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 01:39:38PM 0 points [-]

Really? I think, after staring at it for some time, that the comic is making fun of the thinking that maths is a young man's game.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 20 January 2013 07:03:20AM *  3 points [-]

I did. I didn't want to explain why because it's a long conversation I don't want to have, but basically I think this quote promotes a misleading conception of mathematics. For the record, Hardy is thought to have been suffering from depression when he wrote this.

Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 01:28:43PM 0 points [-]

I know, and I've read too, that Hardy was apparently not in the pink when he said this. And in all honesty the comic seems to be making fun of the conception that maths was for the young.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 January 2013 10:52:46AM *  0 points [-]

I wish more people on this forum would explain why they were down voting something, that on the face of it, seems reasonable.

Me too. (Not sure that a link to that xkcd comic in this context “on the face of it, seems reasonable”, though.)

In response to comment by [deleted] on The Level Above Mine
Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 01:23:42PM 0 points [-]

Does a link to a comic have a place in this forum? I don't know the answer to that, perhaps it is not. That said, my comment was more a reaction to other down votes, this just happened to be the straw I was commenting on.

In response to The Level Above Mine
Comment author: Zubon 26 September 2008 09:24:33PM 0 points [-]
In response to comment by Zubon on The Level Above Mine
Comment author: insufferablejake 20 January 2013 06:00:22AM *  1 point [-]

Why was this down voted? The comic is a take on a fairly prevalent belief, heck, Hardy said it!

I wish more people on this forum would explain why they were down voting something, that on the face of it, seems reasonable.

I'm up voting this.

EDIT: When I posted this, I was of the opinion that the comic was just giving a funny take on the maths is a young man's game thing. Now, after looking it several times, I am of the opinion that it was trying to poke fun of this said misconception. And, giving the benefit of doubt to the original poster, I still stand by my upvote.

In response to Morality is Awesome
Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 06 January 2013 05:36:15PM *  34 points [-]

Morality needs a concept of awfulness as well as awesomeness. In the depths of hell, good things are not an option and therefore not a consideration, but there are still choices to be made.

Comment author: insufferablejake 19 January 2013 07:12:16PM 0 points [-]

good things are not an option and therefore not a consideration, but there are still choices to be made.

Awesome line. Up goes the vote.

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