Comment author: jknapka 22 November 2011 05:47:02PM 7 points [-]

Thanks, Raemon, this is inspiring. It reflects my experience learning to draw as an undergraduate, many years ago. I have not drawn much since college, but I do recall vividly the experience of, "Holy crap, is that what a person really looks like?!?" upon first producing a half-decent quick figure drawing. I eventually developed a pretty decent drawing ability, which has atrophied quite severely in the intervening years. The experience definitely influenced my overall thinking though -- I'm very aware that my brain is not telling me the actual shapes and relations that correspond to the light hitting my eyeballs, unless I take the trouble to consciously examine that first-order sensory input. And taking that idea to the meta-level, realizing that my mental models of other things might be wrong in hard-to-notice ways, and taking the trouble to at least try to notice them, has been a valuable skill. (Even if not always applied rigorously.) So I think this is absolutely a valuable sequence; and it's prompted me to try drawing again, too.

In response to comment by Hey on Your inner Google
Comment author: rysade 18 September 2011 08:29:59AM 7 points [-]

The main thing I think folks are objecting to here is the idea of 'swallowing the NLP pill.'

You'll see plenty of self hacks and hacks that work on others (dark arts, etc) but none of it will be labeled NLP. I imagine plenty of the techniques we have here were even inspired in one way or another by NLP.

But here's my main point. We have kept our ideas' scope down for a reason. We DO NOT WANT lukeprog's How To Be Happy to sound authoritative. The reason for that is if it turns out to be 'more wrong' it will be that much easier to let go of.

Introducing the label NLP to our discussions will lend (for some of us) a certain amount of Argument from Authority to the supporters of whoever takes the NLP side, and we really do not want that.

In response to comment by rysade on Your inner Google
Comment author: jknapka 20 September 2011 01:20:17AM 7 points [-]

"We DO NOT WANT lukeprog's How To Be Happy to sound authoritative. The reason for that is if it turns out to be 'more wrong' it will be that much easier to let go of."

This.

Whenever you give a collection of concepts a name, you almost automatically start to create a conceptual "immune system" to defend it, keep it intact in the face of criticism. This sort of getting-attached-to-names strikes me as approximately the opposite of Rationalist Taboo. (Hey, did someone just dis Rationalist Taboo? Lemme at 'em!)

Comment author: Unnamed 28 August 2011 06:40:22PM 1 point [-]

There is evidence that it applies to big decisions too, although there's a tradeoff between satisfaction and success on objective criteria. One of the studies in that genre involved graduating college students choosing a job. The main independent variable was the personality variable of maximizing vs. satisfacing, rather than choice set size, but the results had a similar pattern. Maximizers tended to consider more possible jobs, get a job that was better on objective criteria like salary, and be less satisfied with their job.

Iyengar, Sheena S., Rachel F. Elwork, and Barry Schwartz (2006), “Doing Better But Feeling Worse: Looking for the ‘Best’ Job Undermines Satisfaction,” Psychological Science, 17 (2), 143–50. pdf

Expanding upon Simon's (1955) seminal theory, this investigation compared the choice-making strategies of maximizers and satisficers, finding that maximizing tendencies, although positively correlated with objectively better decision outcomes, are also associated with more negative subjective evaluations of these decision outcomes. Specifically in the fall of their final year in school, students were administered a scale that measured maximizing tendencies and were than followed over the course of the year as they searched for jobs. Students with high maximizing tendencies secured jobs with 20 per cent higher starting salaries than did students with low maximizing tendencies. However, maximizers were less satisfied that satisficers with the jobs they obtained, and experienced more negative affect throughout the job-search process. These effects were mediated by maximizers' greater reliance on external sources of information and their fixation on realized and unrealized options during the search and selection process.

Comment author: jknapka 01 September 2011 07:19:43PM 0 points [-]

So the best strategy would be to maximize, and then when you feel dissatisfied, remind yourself that this feeling is misplaced, since you've probably achieved a situation that is objectively better than the one you would have achieved via satisficing. Will that actually work to de-fuse the feeling of dissatisfaction, I wonder? (Personally, I am a habitual satisficer, and feel pretty happy about most things in my life, while recognizing that there are many ways I could have done better.)

Comment author: PhilGoetz 09 April 2011 01:59:42PM 3 points [-]

That is, murdering someone is so socially inexcusable that we have evolved to instinctively avoid murdering people - or doing anything that is close enough to count as murder in the eyes of our tribe.

Is evolution fast enough to have evolved this instinct in the past 4000 years? IIRC, anthropologists have found murder was the most common cause of death for men in some primitive tribes. There can't have been a strong instinct against murder in tribal days, because people did it frequently.

Comment author: jknapka 11 April 2011 02:55:59PM *  1 point [-]

Murder is the most common cause of death today for some groups (young African American males, for example).

I don't believe it is correct in general that intentional killing was the most common cause of death in primitive tribes; and if it was the case in specific groups, they were exceptional. The citation that occurs to me immediately is "Sex at Dawn" (Ryan & Jetha), which goes to some trouble to debunk the Hobbesian view that primitive life was "nasty, brutish, and short". (Also, my partner is a professional anthropologist with a lot of experience with indigenous South American populations, and we discuss this kind of thing all the time, FWIW.) When population density is very low and resources (including social resources such as access to sexual partners) plentiful, there is no reason murder should be common (if by "murder" we mean the intentional killing of another in order to appropriate their resources). Even in groups where inter-group violence was common (certain American Indian groups, for example), that violence was generally of a demonstrative nature, and usually ended when one group had asserted its dominance, rather than going on until the ground was littered with corpses. The depictions we see of these conflicts in the media are often heavily over-dramatized.

Actually, upon further thought... Even if killing wasn't the point of such inter-group conflicts, it's possible that if those conflicts supplied sufficiently many male deaths, then that sort of "murder" might in fact have been the most common cause of male death in some groups. It is pretty certain, though, that intentional killing within social groups was an extremely rare occurrence, likely to have been met with severe social consequences. (Whereas killing an out-group individual might have been viewed as positively virtuous, probably not analogous to our concept of "murder" at all. Edit: more like "war", I guess :-P )

As for evolving a specific aversion to murder... I think we've a general propensity to abide by social conventions, which seems rather more likely to have evolved in social primates than aversions to specific acts. Those of us raised in strict religious traditions probably had, at some point, a severe aversion to masturbation, for example, and it's pretty clear that no such biological aversion has evolved in humans.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 31 March 2011 07:07:09PM 2 points [-]

Offhand, I'd think that the only mainstream American religions which could be compatible for most LessWrongians would be Unitarianism and the Quakers.

Comment author: jknapka 02 April 2011 03:01:07AM 2 points [-]

I'm a member of my local Unitarian Universalist church (in El Paso, just down the street from Waco by SW standards), and it is very friendly to atheists and skeptics -- I would say 15% to 20% of the membership would identify as "agnostic" or more skeptical. However, it is also friendly to an array of other, much less evidence-based views. I'd say a UU church would definitely be worth a look, and would almost certainly be a better fit for a LW denizen than a "non-denominational Christian" one. But one might need to be tolerant of some rather silly beliefs. OTOH, I'm starting to take it as an opportunity to learn to "evangelize" (gently).

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