Comment author: cousin_it 04 August 2009 09:18:18PM *  3 points [-]

Not to defend dishonest interpretations of science here, but... "heritability" sounds like a unfortunate choice of word for the concept described. It invites inadvertent misrepresentations.

I'm reminded of an old OB comment by Anatoly Vorobey that made the reasonable point that Kolmogorov complexity captures the human notion of "complexity" very lousily at best. (WTF, the whole universe is less complex than one planet within it?) So too it seems with "heritability". People clearly want a number that would describe "how much the over-all level of the trait is under genetic control, and... how much the trait can change under environmental interventions" - why can't the biologists just give them that?

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 10:33:11PM 0 points [-]

Let's call it 'genetic determinism'.

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2009 09:30:30PM 1 point [-]

Bacon is not made from cows.

Even if bacon were made from cows, it is not clear that a reduced cow population would hurt any existing cows.

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 09:57:27PM 0 points [-]

Ok, you got me on the topic of where bacon comes from. For the sake of argument, substitute bacon with beef jerky.

As for your second point, are you saying it's ok to drive a species to extinction or near extinction as long as the individuals of the present generation get to live a bit longer?

What do you think of the following idea? Would you go to a wild life park and erect electric fences to keep lions away from antelopes and instead feed fish to the lions? This would stop the unethical violence lions commit against antelopes.

In response to Unspeakable Morality
Comment author: bgrah449 04 August 2009 09:20:30PM 0 points [-]

All moral codes drill down to a rocky core of "ick," though. Suppose A says, "Well it's clearly wrong." And C says, "No, it's not. Make your case." The case is made when A says, "B inevitably leads to D. Does D make you feel icky?" and C says, "It does."

It's true that people in the past had a lot of icky feelings we don't have today. We also have a lot of icky feelings they didn't have. Given that, I would like to see a follow-up article written about, under this framework, how many more letters of the alphabet have to agree with A before A gets to punish C for making him feel icky, depending on the number of letters in agreement, how severe the ick, that kind of thing.

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 09:39:25PM 0 points [-]

Hey, I very much agree with your explanation. Jonathan Haidt has a very good theory on what makes humans feel this "ick". http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html Don't be turned off by his implication that liberals should be more conservative. Strictly as an empirical model, his theory is quite good.

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2009 08:50:14PM *  1 point [-]

I think it is unethical for humans who can enjoy an excellent quality of life as vegetarians to eat other animals. I have a friend who becomes seriously ill if she tries to do without eating a mammal or a bird for more than, at best, one meal. She should not be a vegetarian. People with serious allergies to many vegetarian protein sources, people who are living in economically marginal situations and have to take whatever they can get, and maybe even the people who seem to worship bacon as nigh unto a god should not be vegetarians. I think more people should be vegetarians than are. I think all people should consider the possibility with some serious thought, because there are more ways to be a vegetarian all the time.

I suggest legumes, soy products, seitan, mycoprotein, dairy, eggs, the least formerly-intelligent meat you can find if any, and lots and lots of plant-based dietary variety.

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 09:27:41PM *  0 points [-]

But if people ate less bacon it would diminish the population of cows. It would hurt cows.

In response to comment by kess3r on Pain
Comment author: thomblake 04 August 2009 08:38:17PM 0 points [-]

Good meaning 'useful for a particular purpose', bad is its negation. Whether the middle is excluded might be a matter of contention.

In response to comment by thomblake on Pain
Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 08:42:55PM 1 point [-]

What's 'useful'? What's 'purpose'?

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2009 08:24:52PM *  1 point [-]

So does that mean vegetarians are ok with eating animals that were treated very humanly or that died of natural causes? Could a vegetarian here explain?

I'm a pescetarian, but let's assume I count. I wouldn't eat those animals because non-fish meat no longer resembles food to me; because if I resumed eating meat of any kind, it would be more difficult to resist meat of inappropriate provenance; and because humanely-treated meat is hard to come by (and still has to be slaughtered) and naturally-dead meat is of suspect quality.

In case there are no vegetarians on this site, how are we driving away or failing to attract vegetarians?

For an idea of how many vegetarians we have, check out this poll.

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 08:41:04PM 0 points [-]

Do you think it is unethical for humans to eat other animals? If so, what do you suggest?

In response to Pain
Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 08:27:41PM 2 points [-]

What's 'bad'?

Comment author: AllanCrossman 04 August 2009 08:12:27PM 2 points [-]

It seems like vegeterianism would lead to cow extinction or very close to it.

It would, but that's an entirely separate issue from animal cruelty.

Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 08:20:09PM 0 points [-]

So does that mean vegetarians are ok with eating animals that were treated very humanly or that died of natural causes? Could a vegetarian here explain?

In case there are no vegetarians on this site, how are we driving away or failing to attract vegetarians?

Comment author: Tiiba 04 August 2009 04:58:01PM *  0 points [-]

My mom taught me to look both ways.

When you buy meat, you pay for the next round of butchery. So it does flow forward. So if you have to eat meat, steal it.

In response to comment by Tiiba on Unspeakable Morality
Comment author: kess3r 04 August 2009 08:10:33PM 1 point [-]

Hey, could someone explain the logic of vegetarianism to me? I get the part where vegeterianism is supposedly healthier. But I don't get the part about not wanting to eat animals because they get killed. I mean, it's not like cows would live happily ever after if nobody ate them. If all humans suddenly stopped eating cows, there would be no reason to raise cows anymore apart from zoos, and cows are not very good at taking care of themselves in the wild. It seems like vegeterianism would lead to cow extinction or very close to it.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 31 July 2009 09:14:46PM 12 points [-]

Uh... I have to ask, at this point, if you've ever tried your hand at writing fiction. Some characters are male, some characters are female, some can be either. The hero might have been either-able. Aerhien wasn't. She is the wise female council leader, not the wise male council leader. Galadriel and Elrond are not interchangeable. And besides, she was female in my mind and that's that.

Comment author: kess3r 01 August 2009 03:04:40AM 9 points [-]

What I want to know is if any of them are black.

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