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Comment author: UnclGhost 05 March 2015 02:42:50AM 3 points [-]

If Harry's right about the effect that transfiguring the stunned Voldemort will have, won't the wards identify "the Defense Professor" as still alive?

Comment author: kilobug 05 March 2015 09:14:05AM 0 points [-]

Interesting hypothesis... but if the wards didn't identify Harry as the "Defense Professor", and identified the troll as "Defense Professor". So I guess the wards identify the bodies more than the "spirit" inhabiting them, which means they won't recognize Voldemort now that he left Quirrel's body to his original snake-like body.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 04 March 2015 09:56:49PM *  2 points [-]

Am I missing something? Why is Harry inventing this silly story?

I bet Hermione is just going to love being the center of all the attention and scrutiny this will bring on her.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 10:04:31PM 19 points [-]

Why I think he's doing this :

  • so Draco doesn't know that Harry probably killed his father ; Harry values his friendship with Draco and doesn't want to lose it ;

  • so Harry doesn't have to tell everyone about his secrets (like partial transfiguration) ;

  • so they don't search for Harry for the transfigured Voldemort ;

  • so Harry doesn't have too many legal/political problems for actually killing dozens of people, including some very powerful ones ;

  • to give some credit and status to Hermione, which at this point Harry trusts more than himself to take the ethical decision (and not destroy the world) ;

  • to save the image of Quirrel, I think Harry still has emotional commitment to the character of Quirrel, even if it was just a mask, and doesn't want that image to be destroyed.

Comment author: cousin_it 04 March 2015 09:06:11PM *  3 points [-]

Also, won't anyone go back with a time-turner to check Harry's version of events?

Also, won't Snape know?

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 09:21:36PM 8 points [-]

It seems that death eaters have "anti-time-looping wards" (chap 94), we don't know exactly how they work, nor if they were used in the graveyard, but it could very well be that no time-traveler can check the events that happened on the graveyard.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 04 March 2015 09:05:15PM 0 points [-]

So I guess no effort is going to be made to rescue Lucius or Dumbledore directly.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 09:13:12PM 2 points [-]

For Lucius, I guess it's too late.

For Dumbledore, there is no hurry, if he's frozen out of time, he can be rescued in a few days, weeks or even years, so definitely not the day to try to do it.

Comment author: Macaulay 04 March 2015 08:36:06PM *  20 points [-]

"Harry, let me verify that your Time-Turner hasn't been used," said Professor McGonagall.

"LOOK OVER THERE!" Harry screamed, already sprinting for the door.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 08:57:51PM 6 points [-]

I think there is a very good chance that McGonagall is worried enough about Hermione, about Dumbledore, ... and won't check Harry's Time-Turner. She's not much into multilevel plots, she's smart, but too honest to live in constant suspicion.

Like she didn't think much about the consequences at the "war level" when she offered the fealty oath to Hermione back then in the Wizengamot.

She sees Harry in pain and traumatized, and she sees the immediate chaos, it wouldn't be very "in character" for her to suddenly suspect Harry and probe him like that.

It could happen because she learned to not follow her "role" anymore, but it still doesn't seem the most likely thing for her to do.

Moody or some aurors on the other hand...

Comment author: William_Quixote 04 March 2015 08:33:31PM 5 points [-]

It's a nice story. But it won't work.

Harry wants folks to think LV killed the death eaters and not him. But he has trained Draco too well. Given priors on someone defeating Voldemort you would assume it's Harry, DD, or QQ in that order. Draco knows Harry and QQ were up to something because he and several other kids bumped into them and had a scuffle at the third floor corridor. If that wasn't entirly obliviated away, Draco will figure out that Harry was involved.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 08:42:19PM 3 points [-]

Draco will probably figure something is strange, but he may not guess/learn that Harry killed his father. I think that's one of the main purpose of Harry in crafting a fake version of events.

Comment author: TuviaDulin 04 March 2015 08:35:27PM 10 points [-]

Didn't Harry JUST learn a lesson about not keeping secrets and assuming he's smarter than the rest of the world put together?

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 08:38:15PM 11 points [-]

Well, he also learned a lesson about not keeping secrets, in the way he told to Voldemort about the Deathly Hallows.

Comment author: Velorien 03 March 2015 11:54:03PM 21 points [-]

Let me have a go at coming up with a dozen:

  • Get rid of Harry's wand (as mentioned)
  • Remove Harry's glasses (which could have been a transfigured anything, and Voldemort had just taught Harry how to dispel transfiguration by mere physical contact)
  • Bind or paralyse Harry, with rope or a Death Eater spell
  • Have a Death Eater Imperius Harry with a command to obey Voldemort and do nothing else
  • Have a Death Eater use a Confundus Charm on Harry to make him trust Voldemort and not look for ways to escape
  • Blind Harry - he doesn't need his eyes to tell Voldemort his secrets, just his ears and tongue
  • On the same principle, Voldemort could happily dismember him, as long as magic was used to prevent death from blood loss or shock, and distraction from pain
  • Drain Harry of magic by forcing him to cast innocuous spells
  • Use illusions to disguise the number and location of the Death Eaters so that Harry is unable to come up with targeted countermeasures against them (and so are any unexpected rescuers)
  • Cast a spell on Hermione as a dead man's switch - something that will not permanently hurt/kill her unless Harry does something to incapacitate Voldemort and prevent him from dispelling it in time (not violating Voldemort's promise, since he does not expect Harry to do this)
  • Have one of Voldemort's innumerable horcruxes and a tied-up victim on hand so that he can come back immediately if killed (if there's a mandatory time delay, Harry doesn't know it, so this is at least a powerful bluff)
  • Bring in some hostages, and kill one each time Harry starts doing anything that sounds like playing for time rather than being maximally cooperative

That took me about 15-20 minutes.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 02:53:53PM 0 points [-]

Half of those would either have prevented Harry for reveling his secrets to LV (paralyze, Imperius) or not changed anything in that case (bind with a rope, remove glasses, horcrux, hostages).

Some are doubtful : confudus I'm not sure it would have worked since Harry is an Occlumens, illusions to hide a few Death Eaters, I'm not sure the remaining hidden Death Eaters would have done anything when seeing all Death Eaters dropping dead and LV collapsing. Death Eaters aren't especially loyal nor courageous, they obey by fear, and a 11 years old boy able to kill a dozen without moving (and who is known to scare dementors, and ...) is as scary as Voldemort.

Now, sure, it's always possible to imagine in hindsight ways Voldemort could have used to save the day for himself. As it is for Dumbledore before, and for Harry earlier (see the lack of recognition code, ...).

But if you nitpick that way, is there any fiction that is satisfying for you ? People do mistakes, even very smart people. The only real mistake Voldemort did was the wand thing, the rest is pretty much nitpicking. And one mistake, which with Voldemort knowledge was very low-risk, can happen without hurting too much the suspension of disbelief.

Comment author: Velorien 04 March 2015 01:28:22PM 1 point [-]

Can't perfect Occlumens protect themselves from mind-altering spells even when unconscious ?

I don't think we've seen any evidence of that in the story.

If you can just Obliviate even the most powerful Occlumens so easily, why didn't either Voldemort or the Order (Moody or Dumbledore) think about it and use that trick massively ?

For what purpose? If you've got your enemy at your mercy with their shields down, you either kill them, or you do something more useful with them (e.g. Imperius). I don't see what you'd get out of Obliviating them instead of either of those options.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 01:41:26PM 1 point [-]

Imperius isn't fail-safe, you can't Imperius strong-willed persons (at least not in cannon), I don't think you can Imperius Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy, Dumbledore, Moody, ... Even Harry can resist the Imperius in cannon.

And while it's true for the "bad guys", AK is more efficient than Obliviate, for the "good guys" who have restraints in killing (like Dumbledore and at least half of the Order of the Phoenix) using Obliviate on death eaters would seem much better than killing them or sending them to Azkaban. I always assumed they didn't do it because it wasn't that easy (long/delicate casting, don't work on Occlumens, ...) to wipe memories massively like that.

Comment author: kilobug 04 March 2015 09:39:45AM 4 points [-]

Two things strike me as odd that I don't seem to have seen yet in other comments (but I might have missed them).

  1. How could the "torture" option work ? From my understanding, if Voldemort gains consciousness again, he can leave his body. And you can't torture someone who is unconscious. The wand in Azkaban pit could work, but the "call Moody to torture Voldemort" option I really don't see how it could work.

  2. How can it be so easy to Obliviate Voldemort ? Can't perfect Occlumens protect themselves from mind-altering spells even when unconscious ? Everyone needs to sleep. If you can just Obliviate even the most powerful Occlumens so easily, why didn't either Voldemort or the Order (Moody or Dumbledore) think about it and use that trick massively ?

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