Comment author: steven0461 05 March 2009 07:59:25AM 0 points [-]

Wait, couldn't people have been programmed by evolution to grieve no matter what they truly believe about where the deceased went?

Comment author: less_schlong 05 March 2009 08:36:25AM 8 points [-]

If you knew that everyone got uploaded to a virtual world when they died, and the virtual world was better in every way than the natural world, and when you died you would be reunited with them in the virtual world, then would you really have something to grieve about when their soul passed out of their body?

Comment author: kurige 05 March 2009 06:14:37AM *  7 points [-]

This I can understand.

I am a protestant Christian and your friend's experience with "belief" are similar to mine. Or seem to be, from what I gather in your post.

One thing I've come to realize that helps to explain the disparity I feel when I talk with most other Christians is the fact that somewhere along the way my world-view took a major shift away from blind faith and landed somewhere in the vicinity of Orwellian double-think.

The double-think comes into play when you're faced with non-axiomatic concepts such as morality. I believe that there is a God - and that He has instilled a sense of right and wrong in us by which we are able to evaluate the world around us. I also believe a sense of morality has been evolutionarily programmed into us - a sense of morality that is most likely a result of the formation of meta-political coalitions in Bonobo communities a very, very long time ago.

These two beliefs are not contradictory, but the complexity lies in reconciling the two. This post is not about the details of my Escher-esque brain, so suffice to say there are questions unanswered by viewing only the scientific side and there are just as many unanswered if viewed only from the spiritual side.

Simply because your friend is not blind to contradictions in the Orthodox Jewish belief system does not mean she does not sincerely believe - or that she's deceived herself into believing that she believes. It means that she, as all intelligent believers who practice crisis of faith should, understands just how much she doesn't understand.

Comment author: less_schlong 05 March 2009 07:59:20AM -4 points [-]

You said it yourself, you are double-thinking: both a smart thought and a stupid one. Bonobos are around today but they weren't in the past, because humans have a common ancestor with them—i.e. Bonobos are irrelevant. Speaking of irrelevant, believing that we have evolved moral tendencies has nothing to do with your beliefs of god’s absolute morality.

Let me ask you a question about your God. Is it the simplest explanation of all the evidence? No, right? OK, then maybe you should believe something else i.e. naturalism. Because there is something called Occam's Razor that basically says that, and if you haven't heard about it then read it ASAP. I hope you understand how ridiculous it is to try to have an intellectual discussion when you think Santa Claus (i.e. God) is constantly talking to you like you have a cell phone. Even my kid can see that that's a stupid thing to believe but you seem like a smart guy so how about join us in the twenty first century?