In response to Approaching Infinity
Comment author: magfrump 02 February 2011 05:16:16AM 2 points [-]

If you stereographically project the real numbers onto the unit circle and use the metric inherited from R^2, then in fact (2) is very close to infinity.

If you use the arctangent to project the positive reals onto a finite set, then again I would guess that (2) is very close to infinity.

There's an old joke...

Some psychologists do an experiment. They put a mathematician and a plumber on one side of a room, and a beautiful woman on the other side. They say, "You can cross half the remaining distance in the room as many times as you like." The mathematician sighs, "I'd never reach her!" The plumber shrugs and says, "You'd get close enough."

Comment author: wedrifid 01 February 2011 11:02:14PM 5 points [-]

Either I don't get it, or you are misapplying a cached thought. Please explain to me where my reasoning is wrong (or perhaps where I misunderstand the problem)

It's not about the money this time - but the implications to utility are the same. The 'million dollars' in Newcomb's problem is allocated in the same way that life is allocated in this problem. In this problem the money is basically irrelevant because it is never part of Prometheus' decision. But existence in the world is part of the stakes.

The problem feels different to Newcomb's because the traditional problem was constructed to prompt the intuition 'but one boxers get the money!'. Then the intuition goes ahead and dredges up reasoning strategies (TDT for example) that are able to win the $1,000,000 rather than the the $1,000. But people's intuitions are notoriously baffled by anthropic like situations. No intuition "um, for some reason making the 'rational choice' is making me worse off" is prompted and so they merrily revert to CDT and fail.

Another way to look at that many people find helpful when considering standard Newcomb's it is that you don't know whether you are the actual person or the simulated person (or reasoning) that is occurring when Omega/Prometheus is allocating $1,000,000/life.

If consistent decision making strategy is applied for both Newcomb's and this problem then those who one box Newcomb's but two box in this problem are making the same intuitive mistake as those who think Quantum Suicide is a good idea based off MWI assumptions.

Comment author: magfrump 02 February 2011 04:54:10AM 4 points [-]

I didn't get it until I read this line:

Another way to look at that many people find helpful when considering standard Newcomb's it is that you don't know whether you are the actual person or the simulated person

So the question is: is Prometheus running this simulation? If so, he will create you only if you one-box.

So it's not that you were created by Prometheus, it's that you might currently be being created by Prometheus, in which case you want to get Prometheus to keep on creating you.

Or less specifically; if I enter into a situation which involves an acausal negotiation with my creator, I want to agree with my creator so as to be created. This type of decision is likely to increase my measure.

Due to my current beliefs about metaverses I would still two-box, but I now understand how different metaverse theories would lead me to one-box; because I assign a nontrivial chance that I will later be convinced of other theories, I'm wondering if a mixed strategy would be best... I don't really know.

Comment author: TobyBartels 18 January 2011 05:44:29AM *  0 points [-]

Then how come plate mail is listed with a higher encumbrance than chain mail in my D&D manual?

ETA: :-)

Comment author: magfrump 28 January 2011 09:06:01AM 0 points [-]

If you care about this kind of thing I recommend Riddle of Steel.

Comment author: magfrump 28 January 2011 08:40:57AM 0 points [-]

A prediction I made a while back, posted here for posterity. Rot13'd to avoid spoilers.

Fnagn Pynhf vf Avpubynf Synzry.

If anyone has made this prediction before, I'd love to see it discussed.

Comment author: magfrump 23 January 2011 01:45:59AM 1 point [-]

Pro: Posts like this get large numbers of upvotes, indicating that people want to see more of them.

Con: As SarahC points out below, however, when people start posting their opinions (which they will) things get ugly.

I'm somewhat on the fence, in that I (like many others) am insatiably curious about what would come out of such discussions, and believe that in the end either I or many other people will have a large number of incorrect beliefs rectified. On the other hand, I do not know if the community would recognizably survive such a discussion, so for now I'd say it's best to wait.

Comment author: SilasBarta 21 January 2011 12:06:47AM 5 points [-]

Including finding a spouse and baby-sitting co-op?

Comment author: magfrump 23 January 2011 01:17:59AM 3 points [-]

Spouse, yes, after a fashion. Baby-sitting co-op... maybe in 5 or 10 years. I trust my players.

Comment author: magfrump 20 January 2011 06:59:06AM 4 points [-]

I think that Dungeons and Dragons fills this space in my life.

Comment author: Perplexed 20 January 2011 02:17:11AM 5 points [-]

Tegmark cosmology implies not only that there is a universe which runs this one as a simulation, but that there are infinitely many such simulations.

I'm not sure that this is true. My understanding is that IF a universe which runs this one as a simulation is possible, THEN Tegmark cosmology implies that such a universe exists. But I'm not sure that such a universe is possible. After all, a universe which contains a perfect simulation of this one would need to be larger (in duration and/or size) than this one. But there is a largest possible finite simple group, so why not a largest possible universe? I am not confident enough of my understanding of the constraints applicable to universes to be confident that we are not already in the biggest one possible.

There is a spooky similarity between the Tegmark-inspired argument that we may live in a simulation and the Godel/St. Anselm-inspired argument that we were created by a Deity. Both draw their plausibility by jumping from the assertion that something (rather poorly characterized) is conceivable to the claim that that thing is possible. That strikes me as too big of a jump.

Comment author: magfrump 20 January 2011 06:49:28AM 6 points [-]

There isn't a largest finite simple group. There's a largest exceptional finite simple group.

Z/pZ is finite and simple for all primes p, and if you think there is a largest prime I have some bad news...

Comment author: Perplexed 20 January 2011 04:06:43AM 3 points [-]

I contend that there is evidence for a god. Observation: Things tend to have causes. Observation: Agenty things are better at causing interesting things than non-agenty things. Observation: We find ourselves in a very interesting universe.

Those considerations are Bayesian evidence.

Your choice of wording here makes it obvious that you are aware of the counter-argument based on the Anthropic Principle. (Observation: uninteresting venues tend not to be populated by observers.) So, what is your real point?

Comment author: magfrump 20 January 2011 06:46:33AM 1 point [-]

I would think "Observers who find their surroundings interesting duplicate their observer-ness better" is an even-less-mind-bending anthropic-style argument.

Also this keeps clear that "interesting" is more a property of observers than of places.

Comment author: DSimon 17 January 2011 02:51:26PM 1 point [-]

You win. :-)

Comment author: magfrump 17 January 2011 06:15:38PM 1 point [-]

I think the only real way to WIN is for us to torture this metaphor-utility metaphor until IT comes back out on the positive infinite side.

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