Comment author: Lumifer 31 March 2016 03:05:23PM *  4 points [-]

The guy is criticizing them. Lots of liberals are uncomfortable with SJWs. I'm looking for a steelmanning, for someone to explain why they are doing the right thing (bonus points for linking it to Christianity or UU specifically).

Comment author: mantis 10 June 2016 09:41:04PM -1 points [-]

In case you're still looking, I think you might find Chris Brecheen's "Social Justice Bard" blog edifying, though he doesn't connect social justice ideas to Christianity that I've seen. For that, some of the blogs on the Progressive Christian Channel at Patheos.com might help (Slacktivist is particularly social-justice-oriented), as well as some of the ones on the Atheist Channel whose authors are ex-Christians and still draw inspiration from what they see as Christianity's good points (e.g. Love Joy Feminism, Roll to Disbelieve and An Atheist in Dixie).

Comment author: mantis 04 March 2014 12:44:49AM 0 points [-]

Ah, shoot. Finally a meet up at a time I could ordinarily attend, and it happens to be the night I have dinner reservations at SCC Culinary Arts Department dining room. They're not so easy to get, so it's not something I could easily reschedule.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 25 October 2013 05:15:58AM 0 points [-]

Most are ASU students, but some are not. What day/time would work better for you?

Comment author: mantis 20 November 2013 08:31:31PM 0 points [-]

I work Monday through Friday, and am generally off between 5:30 and 6:00 PM. I work up in North Scottsdale, so it tends to take half an hour or so to get down to Tempe during rush hour. There are other social events I attend after work most Wednesdays and every other Thursday, but I'm usually free on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday evenings.

Comment author: mantis 25 October 2013 03:50:38AM 0 points [-]

Does your group ever meet later in the evening? I'd be interested in attending a Less Wrong meetup here in the valley, but I work full-time, so Friday afternoon is no good for me. Would I be right in inferring from the location and time that most of your members are ASU students?

Comment author: Lumifer 10 October 2013 06:47:45PM -3 points [-]

OK, let's change the numbers to 70% and 69.9999999% -- is that good?

Comment author: mantis 11 October 2013 06:06:39AM *  4 points [-]

Let's leave "intelligent" aside and focus on the "rational" necessary condition for being "intelligent and rational." Also, let's dig down past the label "conservative Christian" (or "conservative Catholic," as Chris actually said) to some of the beliefs that constitute conservative Christianity and conservative Catholicism. For example, in the American context, a conservative Christian who isn't Catholic is probably some variety of creationist, and quite likely a young-earth creationist. Finding out that a person is a YEC would reduce my probability estimate that that person is rational to effectively zero, regardless of what else they had said up to that point; in my experience, it is not possible for a person to know enough about rationality to practice it, and simultaneously be ignorant enough of the natural sciences to believe that the Earth was created in essentially its present form with its present biota less than 10,000 years ago.

Being a conservative Catholic, as I understand that phrase, necessarily entails believing that homosexuality and contraception are morally wrong according to "natural law" which can supposedly be derived without recourse to divine revelation, and also believing that the College of Cardinals, a group of men who conspired to conceal the sexual abuse of children on a massive scale and thus enable it to continue for decades, are the best possible arbiters of morality for the rest of us. (If you don't believe those two things, you may still be a liberal Catholic, but you are not a conservative one.) Those beliefs are likewise not ones that someone can both hold and be a rational person. They do not, however, preclude intelligence; I would note Justice Antonin Scalia as an excellent example of a highly intelligent, deeply irrational conservative Catholic who uses his intelligence in the service of his irrational beliefs and goals.

Comment author: aspera 16 November 2012 08:06:02PM 1 point [-]

The idea that the utility should be continuous is mathematically equivalent to the idea that an infinitesimal change on the discomfort/pain scale should give an infinitesimal change in utility. If you don't use that axiom to derive your utility funciton, you can have sharp jumps at arbitrary pain thresholds. That's perfectly OK - but then you have to choose where the jumps are.

Comment author: mantis 21 November 2012 08:54:13PM 1 point [-]

I think that's probably more practical than trying to make it continuous, considering that our nervous systems are incapable of perceiving infinitesimal changes.

Comment author: Anatoly_Vorobey 29 September 2012 09:51:52AM 0 points [-]

It was a good movie, but it wasn't really an adaptation of the novel. It combined several scenes from two different novels in the series, and out of necessity imposed by the format, it wove them into a very straightforward plot with far less complex characters than in the books. I enjoyed the movie, but I enjoyed the books far far more.

Comment author: mantis 01 October 2012 08:31:22PM 0 points [-]

Thanks! I'll have to get hold of the first book and see how I like it -- unless there's a better place to begin reading the series? Does the publication order match the internal chronology?

Comment author: Anatoly_Vorobey 05 September 2012 10:13:48AM 1 point [-]

I continue re-reading Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series of nautical historical novels set during the Napoleonic wars in early 19th century. These are probably the best historical novels ever written, and I see them as one of the great achievements of 20th century literature.

I read three of these last month, finishing with The Far Side of the World. Every page brings delight, and instills a fuller, richer sense of life than almost any other book I've read in years.

Comment author: mantis 28 September 2012 12:01:27AM 0 points [-]

I have not yet read any of the novels in that series, but I did see Peter Weir's film of The Far Side of the World during its theatrical run. If you've seen it, would you say it was a good adaptation of the novel?

Comment author: Alicorn 26 September 2012 08:11:53PM 8 points [-]

That's amazing. Can we see a copy of the email?

Comment author: mantis 27 September 2012 08:14:02PM *  4 points [-]

I'll think about that -- from the upvotes, it appears you're not the only Less Wronger interested (at least, I assume an upvote to a one-liner request like that means "I'd like to see it, too"). I wouldn't post an unedited copy, as there are some details in it that I consider very private, as, I think, would my former girlfriend. But I'll take a look at it later and see what would need to be redacted. I would also have to ask her permission before posting any of it, of course, and I'm reluctant to bother her just now -- she has a newborn daughter (as in, born last week), so I expect she's rather preoccupied at the moment.

Comment author: wedrifid 24 September 2012 06:41:37PM 7 points [-]

Somewhere in the archive is an article by lukeprog where he decided to break up with his girlfriend and wanted to let her down easy. In deciding how to do that, he debated with himself about telling her that his desire for a woman with larger breasts was an evolution-caused preference, not a comment on the woman specifically.

That's nonsense, and uncritical acceptance of evo-psych runs the serious risk of exacerbating the problem.

The problem with LukeProg's decision to write that break up essay wasn't evo-psych. The problem was that writing a huge essay on why you're breaking up with someone, including detailed analysis of why there is insufficient attraction is a horrible thing to do to someone without even giving any benefit to yourself.

This doesn't constitute an argument here against evo-psych as an accurate description of reality. It does constitute:

  • A solid illustration of how social awkardness can result in doing harm to others despite all the best intentions.
  • An extremely weak appeal to consequences---an argument that evo-psych should not be studied because bad things could happen from people understanding evolutionary psychology. I describe it as weak since there is little indication that the insult Luke gave given his awareness of evo-psych is any worse than the insult he would have given if ignorant. For example "I'm dumping you because I like big tits, it's just the way I am" is about as insulting as "I'm dumping you because I like big tits, I just evolved that way" (details changed as necessary).

In conclusion, keep your moralizing out of my epistemic rationality! At least while posting on this site, please. You can argue that a particular subject should not be discussed here for instrumental reasons in accordance with your own preferences. However it is never appropriate (on lesswrong, I assert) to argue that a belief must be considered false because of perceived consequences of someone believing it.

Comment author: mantis 26 September 2012 08:07:37PM 6 points [-]

The problem was that writing a huge essay on why you're breaking up with someone, including detailed analysis of why there is insufficient attraction is a horrible thing to do to someone without even giving any benefit to yourself.

I don't know that that's necessarily the case. My first serious girlfriend wrote me a very long e-mail before our break-up, laying out her rational analysis of why she believed our relationship was untenable in the long term; she actually succeeded in persuading me to see it her way, which I'd been resisting for emotional reasons. That allowed us to have an amicable parting of ways, and we remain good friends to this day.

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