Comment author: DanielLC 06 May 2012 01:38:12AM 0 points [-]

What you'd worry about now is maximizing your utility function now. That being said, you are not logically omniscient, and you don't fully understand your own utility function. Insomuch as your utility function will change in the future, you should trust your present self. Insomuch as you will further understand your utility function in the future, you should trust your present self.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 02:41:55AM 0 points [-]

If I had some reason (say an impending mental reconfiguration to change my values) to expect my utility function to change soon and stay relatively constant for a comparatively long time after that, what does "maximizing my utility function now" look like? If I were about to be conditioned to highly-value eating babies, should I start a clone farm to make my future selves most happy or should I kill myself in accordance with my current function's negative valuation to that action?

Comment author: jimrandomh 06 May 2012 02:14:04AM 0 points [-]

Does the utility function at the time of the choice have some sort of preferred status in the calculation

Yes, it does. Your present utility function may make reference to the utility functions of your future selves - eg, you want your future selves to be happy - but structurally speaking, present-day preferences about your future selves are the only way in which those other utility functions can bear on your decisions.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 02:35:26AM 0 points [-]

My utility function maximises (and think this is neither entirely nonsensical nor entirely trivial in the context) utilons. I want my future selves to be "happy", which is ill-defined.

I don't know how to say this precisely, but I want as many utilons as possible from as many future selves as possible. The problem arises when it appears that actively changing my future selves' utility functions to match their worlds is the best way to do that, but my current self recoils from the proposition. If I shut up and multiply, I get the opposite result that Eliezer does and I tend to trust his calculations more than my own.

Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 06 May 2012 02:04:35AM 3 points [-]

Topology is potentially relevant to FAI theory. Much of computation consists of mappings between spaces - and mappings between mappings, etc. The topological properties of these spaces constrain the dynamical flows that can exist on them.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 02:29:39AM 1 point [-]

Thanks for pointing that out! The general questions still exist, but the particular situation produces much less anxiety with the knowledge that the two functions have some similarities.

Comment author: Manfred 06 May 2012 01:54:07AM 1 point [-]

Constant if what?

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 02:27:10AM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure what you're asking, but it seems to be related to constancy.

A paperclip maximizer believes maximum utility is gained through maximum paperclips. I don't expect that to change.

I have at various times believed: * Belief in (my particular incarnation of) the Christian God had higher value than lack thereof * Personal emplyment as a neurosurgeon would be preferable to personal employment as, say, a mathematics teacher * nothing at all was positively valued and the negative value of physical exertion significantly outweighed any other single value

Given the changes so far, I have no reason to believe my utility function won't change in the future. My current utility function values most of my actions under previous functions negatively, meaning that per instantiation (per unit time, per approximate "me", etc.) the result is negative. Surely this isn't optimal?

Comment author: TheOtherDave 06 May 2012 02:05:13AM 1 point [-]

Talking about "utilons" and "hedons" implies that there exists some X such that, by my standards, the world is better with more X in it, whether I am aware of X or not.

Given that assumption, it follows that if you add X to the world in such a way that I don't interact with it at all, it makes the world better by my standards, but it doesn't make me happier. One way of expressing that is that X produces utilons but not hedons.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 02:21:15AM 1 point [-]

I would not have considered utilons to have meaning without my ability to compare them in my utility function.

You're saying utilons can be generated without your knowledge, but hedons cannot? Does that mean utilons are a measure of reality's conformance to your utility function, while hedons are your reaction to your perception of reality's conformance to your utility function?

Comment author: DSimon 06 May 2012 12:31:28AM 0 points [-]

Consider the following two world states:

  1. A person important to you dies.
  2. They don't die, but you are given a brain modification that makes it seem to you as though they had.

The hedonic scores for 1 and 2 are identical, but 2 has more utilons if you value your friend's life.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 01:19:02AM -1 points [-]

The hedonic scores are identical and, as far as I can tell, the outcomes are identical. The only difference is if I know about the difference - if, for instance, I'm given a choice between the two. At that point, my consideration of 2 has more hedons than my consideration of 1. Is that different from saying 2 has more utilons than 1?

Is the distinction perhaps that hedons are about now while utilons are overall?

Comment author: dlthomas 05 May 2012 04:11:44PM 0 points [-]

Inverting the axis of causality would require inverting the probabilities, such that an egg reforming is more likely than an egg breaking.

I don't think this is a coherent notion. If we "invert the probabilities" in some literal sense, then yes, the egg reforming is more likely than the egg breaking, but still more likely is the egg turning into an elephant.

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 01:15:48AM 0 points [-]

Hm. This is true. Perhaps it would be better to say "Perceiving states in opposite-to-conventional order would give us reason to assume probabilities entirely consistent with considering a causality in opposite-to-conventional order."

Unless I'm missing something, the only reason to believe causality goes in the order that places our memory-direction before our non-memory direction is that we base our probabilities on our memory.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 05 May 2012 04:05:09PM -1 points [-]

All of this is internally consistent, but I see no reason to believe it gives us a "real" direction of causality.

What do you want out of a "real" direction of causality, other than the above?

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 01:11:07AM 0 points [-]

Well, Eliezer seems to be claiming in this article that the low-to-high is more valid than the high-to-low, but I don't see how they're anything but both internally consistent

Comment author: Manfred 06 May 2012 12:45:16AM 1 point [-]

Does the utility function at the time of the choice have some sort of preferred status in the calculation, or would it be highly positive to create an AI that rewrites brains to value above all else a universe tiled with molecular smiley faces and then tiles the universe with molecular smiley faces?

If you built a paperclip maximizer and offered it this choice, what would it do?

Comment author: momothefiddler 06 May 2012 01:08:46AM 0 points [-]

I can only assume it wouldn't accept. A paperclip maximizer, though, has much more reason than I do to assume its utility function would remain constant.

Delayed Gratification vs. a Time-Dependent Utility Function

2 momothefiddler 06 May 2012 12:32AM

Ideally, a utility function would be a rational, perfect, constant entity that accounted for all possible variables, but mine certainly isn't. In fact, I'd feel quite comfortable claiming that no humans at the time of writing do.

When confronted with the fact that my utility function is non-ideal or - since there's no universal ideal to compare it to - internally inconsistent, I do my best to figure out what to change and do so. The problem with a non-constant utility function, though, is that it makes it hard to maximise total utility. For instance, I am willing to undergo -50 units of utility today in return for +1 utility on each following day indefinitely. What if I accept the -50, but then my utility function changes tomorrow such that I now consider the change to be neutral, or worse, negative per day?

Just as plausible is the idea that I be offered a trade that, while not of positive utility according to my function now, will be according to a future function. Just as I would think it a good investment to buy gold if I expected the price to go up but bad if I expected the price to go down, so I have to base my long-term utility trades on what I expect my future functions to be. (Not that dollars don't correlate with units of utility, just that they don't correlate strongly.)

How can I know what I will want to do, much less what I will want to have done? If I obtain the outcome I prefer now, but spend more time not preferring it, does that make it a negative choice? Is it a reasonable decision, in order to maximise utility, to purposefully change your definition of utility such that your expected future would maximise it?

 

What brings this all to mind is a choice I have to make soon. Technically, I've already made it, but I'm now uncertain of that choice and it has to be made final soon. This fall I transfer from my community college to a university, where I will focus a significant amount of energy studying Something 1 in order to become trained (and certified) to do Something 2 for a long period of time. I had thought until today that it was reasonable for Something 1 to be math and Something 2 to be teaching math. I enjoy the beauty of mathematics. I love how things fit together, barely anything can excite me as much as the definition of a derivative and its meaning, and I've shown myself to be rather good at it (which, to be fair, is by comparison to those around me, so I don't know how I'd fare in a larger or more specialized pool). In addition, I've spent some time as a tutor and I seem to be good at explaining mathematics to other people and I enjoy seeing their faces light up as they see how things fit together.

Today, though, I don't know if that's really a wise decision. I was rereading Eliezer's paper on AI in Global Risk and was struck by a line: "If we want people who can make progress on Friendly AI, then they have to start training themselves, full-time, years before they are urgently needed." It occurred to me that I think FAI is possible and that I expect some sort of AI within my lifetime (though I don't expect that to be short). Perhaps I'd be happier studying topology than I would cognitive science and I'd definitely be happier studying topology than I would evolutionary psychology, but I'm not sure that even matters. Studying mathematics would provide positive utility to me personally and allow me to teach it. Teaching mathematics would be valued positively by me both because of my direct enjoyment and because I value a universe where a given person knows and appreciates math more than an otherwise-identical universe where that person doesn't. The appearance of an FAI would by far outclass the former and likely negate the significance of the latter. A uFAI has such a low utility that it would cancel out any positive utility from studying math. In fact, even if I focus purely on the increase of logical processes and mathematical understanding in Homo Sapiens and neglect the negative effects of a uFAI, moving the creation of an FAI forward by even a matter of days could easily be of more end value than being a professor for twenty years.

 

I don't want to give up my unrealistic, idealized dream of math professorship to study a subject that makes me less happy, but if I shut up and multiply the numbers tell me that my happiness doesn't matter except as it affects my efficacy. In fact, shutting up and multiplying indicates that, if large amounts of labour were of significant use (and I doubt that would be any more use than large amounts of computing power) then it'd be plausible to at least consider subjugating the entire species and putting all effort to creating an FAI. I'm nearly certain this result comes from having missed something, but I can't see what and I'm scared that near-certainty is merely an expression of my negative anticipation regarding giving up my pretty little plans.

 

Eliezer routinely puts forward examples such as an AI that tiles the universe with molecular smiley faces as negative. My basic dilemma is this: Does the utility function at the time of the choice have some sort of preferred status in the calculation, or would it be highly positive to create an AI that rewrites brains to value above all else a universe tiled with molecular smiley faces and then tiles the universe with molecular smiley faces?

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