Comment author: prase 04 January 2013 08:05:45PM 4 points [-]

I can remember believing very weird things before school age, just as when my grand-mother told me that gravity is because of Earth's rotation. I tried to verify that experimentally with a globe, but in spite of the failure to attract things to the globe I continued to believe the explanation for some time, concluding that Earth has to rotate very fast.

I am, on the other hand, not aware of losing any skill at school. Not sure about others, but in the third grade they didn't seem any more stupid than in the first. But of course, I might have had lost even the ability to observe critical thinking during the time.

Comment author: mwengler 04 January 2013 08:22:13PM 1 point [-]

I agree I gained critical thinking skills throughout my childhood, much more aided by school than impeded. Science was science. I had a 5th grade science teacher who was an idiot, but when I argued with him over his stupidities, he didn't shut me down, he argued back. And all along I was learning that this was a description of the world and the world, not some authority, got the last say.

Not all kids are going to be as good at critical thinking as all other kids. This is not a failure of the education system, it is a failure of the human race. The best a system can do is add a delta in the right direction, on average, to most of us. My kids are pretty normal girls, but they are reasonable arguers and don't believe stupid stuff. This latter from training if I do say so myself. They think their opinions matter and so they put some effort in to them.

Comment author: DaFranker 04 January 2013 06:58:11PM *  4 points [-]

Indeed, this seems to be a problem. Even with unusually bright children, it seems deception still remains the only charitable option, otherwise you're pretty much condemning them to an early dose of "Everyone expects X of you. You must do X. We both know X is wrong, and stupid, and your next ten years will be a waste of time and effort and resources, but you must do X or be treated like a demon." and all the subsequent depression, narcissism, detachment and unhappiness.

Encouraging them to obtain information on their own and keep asking questions seems like the most worthwhile strategy.

Children are often visibly treated more like pets than people, at least in north american society. When a child asks a scientific question that upsets religious creed, receives a dogmatic answer and instructions to never speak of it again, and then loudly rejects this answer in light of obvious evidence, what happens isn't a discussion or an argument with the person, the child themselves...

What happens is an angry parent screaming "WHAT THE F*** DID YOU DO TO MY CHILD?!", in similar manner to how someone might yell at a pet-keeper upon finding out that the cat was taught to scratch itself and eat rotten food when it was left in their care during the owner's vacation.

Comment author: mwengler 04 January 2013 07:38:36PM 1 point [-]

I don't raise my kids this way and neither does anybody else in my large community. I'm not saying everybody everywhere is enlightened, but there are large swaths of civilization where kids are trained to think.

In my own case, i constantly answer my children's questions with questions, and have never yelled at anyone for the way they have answered my kids questions. I have certainly undermined some of their answers, but not most.

Comment author: mwengler 04 January 2013 03:36:13PM *  0 points [-]

Deleted

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 03 January 2013 08:21:53PM *  -2 points [-]

Republicans spend a lot of time torturing non-Americans and then laughing about it in their Republican forums, so as a non-American,

There are two ways to interpret the above statement, one of which makes it false, the other true but highly misleading.

The false interpretation: Republicans support torturing random non-Americans and than laugh about it on their forums. (Seriously, if this statement sounds at all plausible to you, you have bigger problems.)

The misleading interpretation: Republicans support torturing certain particular non-Americans and laugh than laugh about it on their forums. Of course, those particular non-Americans are terrorists, dictators, dictators' thugs, and otherwise nasty people who one could reasonably say deserve it.

Comment author: mwengler 04 January 2013 02:07:01PM 3 points [-]

Of course, those particular non-Americans are terrorists, dictators, dictators' thugs, and otherwise nasty people who one could reasonably say deserve it.

Or innocent bystanders mistaken for, or even cynically denounced without merit. The same legal and practical protections against torturing or even mistakenly imprisoning Americans are deliberately not applied when torturing or imprisoning foreigners.

The U.S. has, and all countries have, to some extent, a double standard, one for citizens and one for non-citizens. In the U.S. the distance between the two different standards has increased gigantically since 9/11/2001.

This may be what Aris was referring to.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 03 January 2013 07:37:54PM 1 point [-]

I hear the deregulation thing touted a lot and I don't buy it. Do you have any links or sources? It seems like "deregulation" usually refers to less explicit rules in favor of a closer alliance between government and the major players of the industry in question.

Comment author: mwengler 04 January 2013 01:59:51PM 2 points [-]

Reagan further removed controls on oil and gas, cable television and long-distance phone service, as well as interstate bus service and ocean shipping.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulation#Deregulation_1970-2000

Reagan was not the only president who reduced regulation, but he was one of them.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 02 January 2013 05:17:06AM 17 points [-]

A prerequisite to the above question:

Do the political parties, when elected, implement the policies that they advocate when campaigning?

Are there other affiliations besides party which more accurately predict a politician's actions?

Comment author: mwengler 03 January 2013 05:18:02PM 1 point [-]

Reagan deregulated, Bush lowered taxes, Clinton balanced budgets and reformed welfare, etc. etc.

Of course the record is not perfect, but in the grand scheme of things, large sweeping points of discussion tend to get attention correlated with the discussion.

Comment author: 9eB1 02 January 2013 05:43:26AM 9 points [-]

This question strikes me as both too mindkill-y, and as unimportant in light of the fact that you don't get to vote for political parties, only for individual candidates in individual races. What do you think would be the important change in your behavior if you were convinced, in general, that Republicans were "better" than Democrats or vice versa, and how do you think that would impact the political process?

Comment author: mwengler 03 January 2013 05:16:23PM 1 point [-]

What do you think would be the important change in your behavior if you were convinced, in general, that Republicans were "better" than Democrats or vice versa, and how do you think that would impact the political process?

The political discussion moves the parties around. Economics discussion resulted in significant deregulation which has since been pretty broadly adopted by both parties. A discussion of what features make one party better than the other will, if it bears up, tend to contribute to making both parties more like the better position.

Since politics is a team sport, if it turned out that one team is doing better at what you want (assuming it is prosperity, hardly the only metric possible), then you would be well advised to support that team in some ways.

These are two practical implications for this discussion.

Comment author: Alsadius 02 January 2013 10:11:54AM 14 points [-]

I think that this thread will go better, by the established norms of LW, if we stick to single, small topics that can actually be taken apart. The question you ask has far too many nested unknowns - definition of party platforms is hard, and economic outcomes of various policies is even harder - and too many places for discussion to go off the rails. Even with this group, that debate will devolve into talking points within three layers of replies. I'd rather have that sort of discussion in an ordinary group, and use LW for political debate of the sort LW actually has an advantage at.

Comment author: mwengler 03 January 2013 05:13:11PM 0 points [-]

Yes many moving parts, but an important part of this discussion could be which are actually more important and which are sideshows.

Comment author: Pentashagon 19 December 2012 08:55:56PM -1 points [-]

The thing is, there's already selection pressure against psychopaths who can't conceal their true nature.

We didn't eradicate malaria or polio with kinder, gentler methods. Don't leave anything for evolution to work with.

However, psychopaths may be perfect candidates for testing post-cryogenic restoration.

Comment author: mwengler 20 December 2012 03:29:24PM -2 points [-]

There has been strong selection pressure against homosexuals for a long time, and i include both their likelihood of being oppressed AND their unlikelihood of engaging in sex likely to result in children.

Psychopathy in an intelligent person is probably a benefit to the individual at the expense of slightly lower benefits from group cooperation. Then put the psychopath in a position where he can influence competition against other groups, and the thing is a positive for the group being thus led.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 20 December 2012 12:16:57AM 0 points [-]

I was being somewhat facetious.

Comment author: mwengler 20 December 2012 03:26:02PM 1 point [-]

That is, of course, what a psychopath would say. They are not above lying to protect themselves.

:)

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