Comment author: ZankerH 06 May 2012 03:00:15PM 1 point [-]

As I understand it, in the USA waiting staff get paid below minimum wage and are expected to live off tips.

Comment author: nawitus 06 May 2012 08:59:48PM 1 point [-]

If tipping stopped, waiting staff wages would increase and so would food prices (to pay for the wage increases).

Comment author: FAWS 24 March 2011 03:56:08PM *  0 points [-]

I didn't claim you were talking about Finland. However, many of those issues are true in most Western nations. It's just that I'm not an expert in any other country.

My guess is that at least 98% of the world population lives in countries with less gender equality than Finland, and likewise at least 85% of the LW readership.

(EDIT: According to http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm 1.5% of world population lives in countries with gender division in the lower house equivalent at least as close to balanced as in Finland, as do at least 6% (but probably no more than 8%) of LW readers. )

Arguing against "Women suffer more unfairness" with the example of Finland makes about as much sense as arguing against "Cars cause more fatalities than rhinos" with the example of a specific subdivision of an African country with high rhino fatalities (and such a statement wouldn't imply that car safety should have a higher priority than protecting people and rhinos from each other even there) .

"a global equality resource budget"

This doesn't even exist..

It makes just as much sense to talk about a global equality resource budget as it makes to talk about "equality resources" in the first place. Or do you deny the existence of international organizations working for equality, and that individuals have some (limited) ability to choose for which cause in which country they fight? I mentioned non-transferable resources in my comment and never implied anything about which of those, if either, dominated.

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 05:43:28PM 6 points [-]

"Arguing against "Women suffer more unfairness""

Nobody has yet provided arguments that women suffer more in e.g. USA. I'd say my points are true to some degree in USA, except for military service and perhaps domestic violence. I've talked with a researcher of income equality, and atleast he said that wages are pretty much equal for male and females in the USA. Income is not. In Finland for example, males have 20% higher income, but they do 20% more work hours yearly.

"Or do you deny the existence of international organizations working for equality, and that individuals have some (limited) ability to choose for which cause in which country they fight?"

No, but each country has a local equity resource budget. A global one does not exist, but can be "conjured" up in your mind.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 24 March 2011 03:29:28PM 2 points [-]

Ah, OK. If you are proposing 50/50 as a political compromise rather than actually asserting that it's the correct target, then my questions are beside the point. Never mind, then.

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 03:34:58PM 2 points [-]

I made a list of problems in a comment on a website. That's not a good way to make politicial decisions. We need a proper study of the question. I think a priori the 50/50 split between genders is a good balance. You can call that a political compromise, I call it "don't make quick decisions without proper scientific research".

Comment author: TheOtherDave 24 March 2011 03:14:51PM 3 points [-]

I don't quite see the connection between the information you cite, and the 50/50 split policy recommendation.

From my perspective, if we can spend resources in such a way that we collectively get the most bang for the buck and reduce the spread of the curve, that's a win. (In real life those goals are often in conflict, but that's beside my point right now.)

If it so happens that the way to do that is to equally support men and women in a particular community, then a 50/50 split of resources makes sense in that community.

If that's not the case, then a different resource split makes more sense.

Whether that split is weighted towards men or women will depend on the facts of the situation. Maybe I conclude based on the information you cite that I should support Finnish men more than Finnish women, for example.

But I don't see how that data justifies a 50/50 split.

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 03:26:47PM 1 point [-]

My data justifies slightly more resources for men, but until we have proper scientific research on the question, I'm okay with a 50/50 split. The split is currently about 97/3 in favor of women, so going to 50/50 would help significantly.

Comment author: FAWS 24 March 2011 02:15:57PM *  -9 points [-]

Finland

What gave you the idea that I was talking about Finland? Or that most of the world is similar to Finland? You are doing precisely the sort of analysis I argued to be useless, and from a world perspective Finland would be among the last places where you'd spend anything from a global equality resource budget. (I have no opinion how one would best spend local non-transferable resources in Finland, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a neutral allocation by issue ended up helping Finish men more, of course I wouldn't be terribly surprised by the opposite either)

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 03:24:18PM *  7 points [-]

I didn't claim you were talking about Finland. However, many of those issues are true in most Western nations. It's just that I'm not an expert in any other country.

"a global equality resource budget"

This doesn't even exist..

Comment author: TheOtherDave 24 March 2011 01:42:48PM -1 points [-]

Can you clarify what you mean by "evenly distributed"?

For example, by "evenly" do you mean 50/50 between these two causes?

Do you mean distributed proportionally based on the number of men and the number of women in the community?

Do you mean distributed proportionally to reflect the gender distribution in the community (which is noticeably more complex than "number of men" and "number of women")?

Do you mean distributed proportionally based on the degree to which different genders experience differential harm under the current arrangement?

Do you mean something else?

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 02:10:50PM *  0 points [-]

"For example, by "evenly" do you mean 50/50 between these two causes?"

Yes.

More information here: http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/4vj/a_rationalists_account_of_objectification/3r3j

Comment author: FAWS 24 March 2011 12:35:44PM *  4 points [-]

I am reasonably sure you are right, but how useful is that sort of accounting? Society should be fair to each and every individual, not "fair" to both genders on aggregate (the two traditional genders don't even cover everyone). If one gender suffers from unfairness in certain ways that isn't made any better by the other gender suffering an equal amount of unfairness elsewhere, it's made twice as bad because that means twice as much total unfairness.

IMO equality resources should be distributed so as to fix the maximum amount of unfairness. Women suffer more unfairness so presumably most resources would be directed towards them anyway, but there could easily be a number of low hanging fruit on the male side.

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 01:50:57PM *  14 points [-]

"Women suffer more unfairness so presumably most resources would be directed towards them anyway, but there could easily be a number of low hanging fruit on the male side."

This claim is often made, but I haven't seen any calculations to back it up. I'm active in the gender equality debate in Finland, so I can only talk about Finnish statistics:

  • Men are forced to serve on average 8,5 months in "slave work". No modern work regulations apply. I personally witnessed many broken bones and other health problems which happened to my friends during my service. Work was often 24/7 for weeks. Psychological stress is commonplace.
  • Men make 80 % of suicides, and 80 % of the homeless are men.
  • Women have higher wages by 2 percent.
  • Men have less success in studying
  • Men don't have sexual power
  • Men face the majority of violence (and men face as much domestic violence as women)
  • Mutilation of boys for religious reasons is legal, but mutilation of girls is illegal.
  • Men die seven years earlier
  • 60% of unemployed people seeking work are men

(I can provide sources for these, but they would be in Finnish, so I don't think most people are that interested, check http://mies.asia for more information though)

Obviously, women also face problems like rape and lack of leadership positions in corporations. On the political front, we have a female president and a female prime minister.

I'm not claiming definately that men suffer more, but this non-technical examination seems to imply it. At least it has not been proven that women suffer more nowadays.

Until such calculation has been made, I think it should be reasonable to direct 50% of equality resources for feminism, and 50% for masculism.

EDIT: There have been a downvote, but I don't really understand why. Of course, Finland is only one nation, but similar lists have been made in USA for example. If this site assumes that we should only talk about USA, I think that's unfair, since there's a significant Finnish representation. I'm clearly talking about the situation in Finland, and the situation differs from country to country.

There are of course some countries, where women have less freedom than men etc. I don't think it makes sense to talk about a global average here, since equity politics are not a global, but local question.

Comment author: nawitus 24 March 2011 11:59:44AM *  11 points [-]

"I'm a tall white American male, so sometimes it takes a bit of work for me to understand what it's like to be a member of a suppressed group."

Females are suppressed, and so are males. Gender roles suppress both genders. They also offer advantages to both genders.

List of male privileges: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

List of female privileges: http://masculistadvice.blogspot.com/2008/06/female-privilege-list.html

It is true that popular discourse paints females as the suppressed group and males as the non-suppressed group.

"So I've always thought of myself as a feminist."

Feminism goes beyond technical gender equality of having the same rights and privileges. I'm a feminist too, because I think politics should solve problems facing women. And I'm also a masculist (or a men's rights activist), since men's problems should be solved too.

"Of course, some activists (the word has positive connotations to me, BTW) pushed too far, as is the case in all large movements."

The main problem with feminism today is that all the political gender equality resources are directed to feminism. It should be evenly distributed between masculism and feminism.

Comment author: nawitus 09 February 2011 01:48:30AM 5 points [-]

I stutter, and I've done it for as long as I can remember. Anyone know how to beat it? I feel this has pretty significant (negative) effects on my life, because I'm often afraid of speaking up in a group, as stuttering is extremely embarrassing.

Comment author: daedalus2u 24 August 2010 01:09:42PM 1 point [-]

nawitus, my post was too long as it is. If I had included multiple discussions of multiple definitions of consciousness and qualia, you would either still be reading it or would have stopped because it was too long.

Comment author: nawitus 24 August 2010 05:59:35PM 0 points [-]

And that's why we need an article somewhere which would define some common terms, so you don't have to define them all over again in every article about consciousness.

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