Comment author: orielwen 16 September 2011 08:54:53AM 4 points [-]

April now, is it? Then the next thing that's going to happen is that everyone except Harry goes home for Easter (Easter Sunday was 19 April in 1992, and they'll probably take most of the holiday before it rather than after it since it's so late that year) and Harry's parents come to visit him. That should be interesting. I hope he's told them he's not allowed to leave Hogwarts.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 September 2011 04:08:38PM *  6 points [-]

There's certainly evidence pointing that way: "the sibilant whisper" - "dry as dust" - "the high-pitched chuckle" , "What's your name?" "That is the riddle, young Ravenclaw" , and indeed "for now you have seen how the others stayed silent"...

But while I could easily believe that Jeremy Jaffe is better at projecting false emotion than Hermione is at discerning it, I have a much harder time believing that He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, whose eyes blazed crimson like miniature suns, could forget the value of surface appearances.

Comment author: orielwen 14 September 2011 11:45:30AM 4 points [-]

Maybe he's not forgetting, just trying to double-bluff Hermione by appearing suspicious.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 13 September 2011 11:53:53AM 2 points [-]

I pronounce the b. Is that the question? I didn't know there was more than one way to pronounce it.

Also, vase vs. vahse. I think of vase as normal and vahse as affected. I try to keep a grip and realise that people generally say vahse because they think it's normal, not because they're showing off, and the same for aahnt meaning aunt. In at least one dialect (sorry, I don't know which one), both vase and vahse are used, with vahse meaning a fancy vase.

Comment author: orielwen 13 September 2011 04:12:46PM 1 point [-]

Yes, I can tell you do, because you don't spell it 'vayse'.

Comment author: pedanterrific 12 September 2011 10:38:07PM *  5 points [-]

Well, what do we actually know about the sequence of events? Assuming that things are presented in chronological order seems a bit premature, especially in this fic. More specifically, of the Aftermaths last chapter we know that

  • Dumbledore+Harry began at 6pm (with an addendum at 9),

  • Quirrel+Snape was precisely at sunset,

  • Draco+Bulstrode was at some unknown time in the afternoon or evening,

  • Draco+Goyle was some unknown time after that, and

  • Hermione+Mr H&C was also unknown, but either before or after Draco+Bulstrode (since Millicent was present at the meeting Hermione was coming from.)

As far as I know, we are given no indication at all when Interlude with the Confessor happens. It could be immediately after Snape gets back from the meeting with Quirrel, it could be immediately after Hermione is mindraped, it could be the next day for all we know.

But even assuming the Aftermaths are in chronological order, and the Interlude does immediately follow on to the last Aftermath... Snape could have been, say, checking on the third-floor corridor to make sure Quirrel wasn't bluffing about having stolen and replaced the Stone. In fact, I would expect him to have done this anyway, whether or not he then put on a Hat and Cloak and serial-Obliviated a twelve year old girl. (Eugh.)

Comment author: orielwen 13 September 2011 03:29:19PM 0 points [-]

That's all true. And on re-reading, I'm going to go back to my original thought of Quirrel, with the emotional involvement being faked to keep Hermione's interest. Quirrel did, after all, speak up for her when all others were silent.

Comment author: pedanterrific 13 September 2011 04:16:37AM *  12 points [-]

No, I get why you changed it, and I certainly wasn't offering that as any kind of serious suggestion, but... well, maybe it's elitist of me, but frankly I don't understand what benefit there is to catering to the lowest common denominator of ffnet readers. I mean, the lowest common denominator of ffnet readers is pretty low. (Boy-Who-Lived Gets Draco Malfoy Pregnant! sorry i suk at sumries lol, dont liek dont read)

On another note:

"For you, my Princess, are of the blood of the dragons -"

"You have the ability to overcome great fear -"

"By your powers combined, I am -"

"Yer a wizard, Hermione -"

Comment author: orielwen 13 September 2011 03:09:43PM *  2 points [-]

I agree. It was so obvious to me that Hermione was being Obliviated that when I read the instruction at the start of the next chapter I went back to see what I could be missing. It didn't occur to me that peope might not be getting it. And that was when it had ellipses.

Comment author: MinibearRex 12 September 2011 09:06:45PM 1 point [-]

That's why chocolate helps, why they generate feelings of hopelessness, why they take away happy memories and leave unhappy ones, and why their ultimate power is to put people into a coma rather than to kill them. None of this makes sense for a manifestation of death.

I don't know about chocolate, but bad memories are definitely scars you get from death. And what I suspect triggered the idea in Eliezer's mind to make Dementors be about death is the idea of the Dementor's kiss, because of the old metaphor "kiss of death".

Comment author: orielwen 13 September 2011 12:07:23PM *  6 points [-]

bad memories are definitely scars you get from death

That's backwards. I suppose experiencing the death of someone close to you could leave a mental scar in the form of a bad memory. But that's hardly the definition of a bad memory. Nor is a painful memory an inevitable outcome of someone's death.

Comment author: pedanterrific 12 September 2011 04:52:15AM *  9 points [-]

It's easily possible that Hermione has seen at least one picture of Sirius (she mentions him by name as the Potters' betrayer in Chapter 8), and given her memory it would be plausible for her to recognize him, even months afterward. Additionally, Sirius is one of the few people who would cause an immediate reaction of terror at first sight.

Another one might be - bear with me here - Lucius Malfoy. This idea is a little shakier, as it's less plausible that Hermione is familiar with his appearance, but the advantage is that it neatly accounts for the otherwise-strange

The black mist darkened and lightened, like a shake of the head. "I am frightened of Harry Potter," it whispered. "Of the coldness in his eyes, of the darkness that grows behind them. Harry Potter is a killer, and anyone who is an obstacle to him will die. Even you, Hermione Granger, if you dare truly oppose him, the darkness behind his eyes will reach out and destroy you. This I know."

since Lucius seems to be convinced Harry is possessed by Voldemort. (Though it casts a certain odd light on Mr H&C's warning to Hermione about Lucius, I think it's at least possible that he could bite his tongue enough to say "though you are Muggleborn, you possess a power of wizardry greater than any pureblood" if he considered it just a flattering lie.)

The obvious antipathy toward Dumbledore and knowledge of Snape serve equally well as evidence for Lucius or somehow-evaded-going-to-Azkaban!Sirius. Interestingly, they also work for Pettigrew, who Lupin tells us "adored secrets," but who presents the issue of Hermione almost certainly not recognizing or being terrified of him.

Of course, the only reason to entertain such out-there possibilities is how weirdly clumsy and out-of-character this latest act would be for Quirrel. Mr H&C's first appearance (in Chapter 35) is really obviously Quirrel, if for no other reason than

Chapter 35: Mr. Hat and Cloak gave a whispery chuckle. "Indeed," said the whisper. "With the murder of one student five decades ago being the exception that proves the rule, since Salazar Slytherin would have keyed his monster into the ancient wards at a higher level than the Headmaster himself."

Chapter 49 (Quirrel): "First, I believe the Chamber of Secrets is real, as is Slytherin's Monster. Miss Myrtle's death was not discovered until hours after her demise, even though the wards should have alerted the Headmaster instantly. Therefore her murder was performed either by Headmaster Dippet, which is unlikely, or by some entity which Salazar Slytherin keyed into his wards at a higher level than the Headmaster himself."

Comment author: orielwen 12 September 2011 08:46:26PM 1 point [-]

There is that. But it's just occurred to me: if the person attacking Hermione is not Snape, then what's Snape been doing to make him late and quite exhausted in Chapter 77?

Comment author: orielwen 12 September 2011 12:50:42PM 14 points [-]

Chapter 76: "And that's why I can destroy Dementors and you can't," said the boy. "Because I believe that the darkness can be broken."

This is interesting, because it touches upon a thought I had about the Dementors back in Chapter 45. In canon, Dementors are manifestations not of death or even fear, but of despair. (I believe Rowling has said she drew upon her own experiences of depression.) That's why chocolate helps, why they generate feelings of hopelessness, why they take away happy memories and leave unhappy ones, and why their ultimate power is to put people into a coma rather than to kill them. None of this makes sense for a manifestation of death.

But Harry's response would work either way. A happy memory, a pleasant thought, can shield against despair, but it can't destroy it. Hope, on the other hand, true grim hope – the belief that things can be made better and, crucially, the unshakeable determination to make them so, not by thinking 'wouldn't it be nice if…' but by knuckling down and solving the insoluble problem – is the only true cure for despair. And that sort of hope, which Harry shows, is actually pretty hard to hold truly, which would explain why almost no-one else has found the same way that Harry has.

I don't believe this was Eliezer's intention. Harry's views on death are far too close to Eliezer's own as shown in http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/simplified for me to feel that the Dementors are intended to be anything else. But I quite like my interpretation. Aside from anything else, since that sort of hope can be reinforced by being shared (enhancing both resolve and the feeling that the task is possible), it leaves open the possibility for a Patronus 3.0 by group-casting.

Comment author: MatthewBaker 09 September 2011 10:32:49PM *  3 points [-]

Does anyone else wonder why Sirus hasn't shown up in this story yet? I get the whole

Peter Pettigrew x Sirus Black = tragedy lovers keeps them from being central to the story up to this point

But is it still an accepted fact in MoR verse that Pettigrew is innocent?

Comment author: orielwen 11 September 2011 08:08:38PM 3 points [-]

I have Sirius down as an outsider for Hat-and-Cloak.

Comment author: thakil 09 September 2011 01:50:49PM 6 points [-]

I'm interested in discussing the world Eliezer has created. Its alternate in obvious and subtle ways. Obviously, in this world both Harry and Quirrelmort are rationalists, but lots of other elements have changed.

-Dumbledore seems more changed by war than his book incarnation, to the point where he is making some obviously bad choices that have impacts on the school -The school is a more dangerous place than it was in the books. By this, I mean that in books 1-4, despite some hijinks, the actual danger was pretty darn low- in first year Harry had to actively try to get into mortal danger (ignoring some deeply unsubtle assasination attempts by Quirrel). In particular other students are never a danger to each other, yet theres a strong implication that here fights really can escalate- or at least that was the attempt with the Heromione arc. This is probably due in part to Dumbledore's approach (I don't believe that the 'Dore of the books would have tolerated such an escalation at all), and the beefing up of Slytherin house, and the Malfoy's in particular. While Lucius Malfoy was clearly a powerful individual in the books, his manipulations were fairly clunky, and nowhere near as subtle as portrayed here.

I think I need to have it in my head that many of the characters are subtly different here, because sometimes I read their portrayal as mocking the attitude in the books, and while sometimes that IS whats happening, sometimes its just because the characters aren't quite the same.

Comment author: orielwen 11 September 2011 07:37:33PM 1 point [-]

Yes. I don't see Dumbledore in canon being so stupid as to fail to either ward his room against time-travel or recognise that that was how Harry got in.

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