Comment author: buybuydandavis 19 April 2012 07:11:09PM 4 points [-]

I think the test for EY's articles aren't predictions he makes, which I don't recall many of, but what you can do with the insight he offers. For example, does it allow you to deal with your own problems better? Has it improved your instrumental rationality, including your epistemic rationality?

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 07:55:10PM 8 points [-]

For example, does it allow you to deal with your own problems better?

I don't agree with this at all. I could become a Christian, and then believe that all of my problems are gone because I have an eternity in heaven waiting for me simply because I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. Christianity makes few falsifiable predictions. I want to hold EY up to a higher standard.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 19 April 2012 07:07:18PM *  36 points [-]

best track record of any top pundit in the US

The study linked to meant next to nothing in my eyes. It studied political predictions in an election year by political hacks on tv. 2007-2008. Guess what? IN an election cycle that liberals beat conservatives, the liberal predictions more often came true than conservative predictions.

Reminds me of the reported models of mortgage securities, created using data from boom times only.

Krugman was competing with a bunch of other political hacks and columnists. I doubt that accuracy is the highest motivation for any of them. The political hacks want to curry support, and the columnists want to be invited on tv and have their articles read. I'd put at least 3 motivations above accuracy for that crowd: manipulate attitudes, throw red meat to their natural markets, and entertain. It's Dark Arts, all the way, all the time.

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 07:51:42PM 6 points [-]

OK, I don't want to get off-topic. EY doesn't practice the Dark Arts (at least, I hope not).

A lot of what EY writes makes sense to me. And I'd like to believe that we'll be sipping champagne on the other side of the galaxy when the last star in the Milky Way burns out (and note that I'm not saying that he's predicting that will happen). But I'm not a physicist or AI researcher - I want some way to know how much to trust what he writes. Is anything that he's said or done falsifiable? Has he ever publicly made his beliefs pay rent? I want to believe in a friendly AI future... but I'm not going to believe for the sake of believing.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 19 April 2012 06:35:46PM *  5 points [-]

My understanding is that for the most part SI prefers not to publish the results of their AI research, for reasons akin to those discussed here. However they have published on decision theory, presumably because it seems safer than publishing on other stuff and they're interested in attracting people with technical chops to work on FAI:

http://singinst.org/blog/2010/11/12/timeless-decision-theory-paper-released/

I would guess EY sees himself as more of a researcher than a forecaster, so you shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make as many predictions as Paul Krugman.

Also, here's a quote from his paper on cognitive biases affecting judgment of global risks:

Once upon a time I made up overly detailed scenarios, without realizing that every additional detail was an extra burden. Once upon a time I really did think that I could say there was a ninety percent chance of Artificial Intelligence being developed between 2005 and 2025, with the peak in 2018. This statement now seems to me like complete gibberish. Why did I ever think I could generate a tight probability distribution over a problem like that? Where did I even get those numbers in the first place?

So he wasn't born a rationalist. (I've been critical of him in the past, but I give him a lot of credit for realizing the importance of cognitive biases for what he was doing and popularizing them for such a wide audience.) My understanding was that one of the primary purposes of the sequences was to get people to realize the importance of cognitive biases at a younger age than he did.

Obviously I don't speak for SI or Eliezer, so take this with a grain of salt.

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 07:09:56PM *  4 points [-]

I would guess EY sees himself as more of a researcher than a forecaster, so you shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make as many predictions as Paul Krugman.

OK. If that is the case, then I think that a fair question to ask is what have his major achievements in research been?

But secondly, a lot of the discussion on LW and most of EY's research presupposes certain things happening in the future. If AI is actually impossible, then trying to design a friendly AI is a waste of time (or, alternately, if AI won't be developed for 10,000 years, then developing a friendly AI is not an urgent matter). What evidence can EY offer that he's not wasting his time, to put it bluntly?

Comment author: TimS 19 April 2012 06:52:49PM *  4 points [-]

What does a decision theory that "has a solid theoretical background but turns out to be terrible" look like when implemented?

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 07:02:25PM 5 points [-]

You play a game that you could either win or lose. One person follows, so far as he or she is able, the tenets of timeless decision theory. Another person makes a decision by flipping a coin. The coin-flipper outperforms the TDTer.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 19 April 2012 06:35:46PM *  5 points [-]

My understanding is that for the most part SI prefers not to publish the results of their AI research, for reasons akin to those discussed here. However they have published on decision theory, presumably because it seems safer than publishing on other stuff and they're interested in attracting people with technical chops to work on FAI:

http://singinst.org/blog/2010/11/12/timeless-decision-theory-paper-released/

I would guess EY sees himself as more of a researcher than a forecaster, so you shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make as many predictions as Paul Krugman.

Also, here's a quote from his paper on cognitive biases affecting judgment of global risks:

Once upon a time I made up overly detailed scenarios, without realizing that every additional detail was an extra burden. Once upon a time I really did think that I could say there was a ninety percent chance of Artificial Intelligence being developed between 2005 and 2025, with the peak in 2018. This statement now seems to me like complete gibberish. Why did I ever think I could generate a tight probability distribution over a problem like that? Where did I even get those numbers in the first place?

So he wasn't born a rationalist. (I've been critical of him in the past, but I give him a lot of credit for realizing the importance of cognitive biases for what he was doing and popularizing them for such a wide audience.) My understanding was that one of the primary purposes of the sequences was to get people to realize the importance of cognitive biases at a younger age than he did.

Obviously I don't speak for SI or Eliezer, so take this with a grain of salt.

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 06:39:15PM 3 points [-]

If his decision theory had a solid theoretical background, but turned out to be terrible when actually implemented, how would we know? Has there been any empirical testing of his theory?

Comment author: Manfred 19 April 2012 06:15:37PM 7 points [-]

On quantum mechanics: the many-worlds interpretation probably shouldn't be referred to as "his" interpretation (around before he was born, etc.), and there's been some experimental work defending it (for example, entangling 10^4 particles and not seeing a certain kind of collapse), bit it's not very strong evidence.

He also made a lot of super-wrong plans/predictions over a decade ago. But on the other hand, that was a while ago.

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 06:25:42PM 3 points [-]

For the record, what were those predictions? What are your sources?

Comment author: perpetualpeace1 19 April 2012 03:00:16PM 12 points [-]

On a related note... has Eliezer successfully predicted anything? I'd like to see his beliefs pay rent, so to speak. Has his interpretation of quantum mechanics predicted any phenomena which have since been observed? Has his understanding of computer science and AI lead him to accurately predict milestones in the field before they have happened?