Comment author: phane 20 April 2010 05:17:07AM 9 points [-]

Hi there.

I used to comment once in a while, but I find myself less and less interested in the topics of conversation around here. For a short while, people were going on a lot about dating (wtf?) and then more recently there's been a fair amount of what is essentially self-help for the scientifically inclined. I dunno, I guess I was just more into thought experiments and Yudkowsky posts.

Comment author: PeerInfinity 24 October 2009 06:27:23PM *  8 points [-]

While I'm at it, here are links to a bunch of other games that require some degree of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules:

Factory Balls and Factory Balls 2

Easy. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, once you figure out what the rules are.

Aether

Easy. Requires solving some puzzles without any hints what the puzzle is or what a solution would look like. Solvabe just by trying random things until something happens.

Duck, think outside the flock

Medium. A series of puzzles, each of which has different rules.

me and the key

Medium. A series of puzzles, each of which has different rules.

Electric Box

Medium. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, but you have to figure out how to put them together.

Dynamic Systems

Medium. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, but you have to figure out how to put them together.

Casual Gameplay Escape

Hard! A series of puzzles, connected by other puzzles, each of which have different rules, and most of which have a counterintuitive solution. Hints about the solutions are cleverly hidden in the game. Hint: Gur cevagfperra ohggba vf lbhe sevraq. (rot13'd)

Take Something Literally

Hard. A series of puzzles, each of which has a deliberately counterintuitive, and often malevolent, solution. Don't worry if you can't solve all of them, some of the solutions require specific computer hardware or softwae to win.

The Impossible Quiz and The Impossible Quiz 2

Almost Impossible. A series of quiz questions and other challenges that have deliberately counterintuitive solutions. Some of the quiz questions are solvable only by trial and error. Some of the challenges require extremely fast reflexes. Many of the puzzles are blatantly evil. Do not expect to win this. You have been warned.

The rest of these games don't really fit with the theme of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules, but are unique enough to include in the list anyway:

Closure

Medium. A unique game, but the rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Time Kufc

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Red Remover

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Shift, Shift 2, Shift 3, and Shift 4

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Exploit

Medium. Actually, this doesn't belong in this list at all. The rules don't change, and the solutions are all quite literally inside the box.

There are plenty of other good puzzle games I could link to, but they didn't really fit with the theme of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules.

Question: Would it be inappropriate to put this list somewhere on the Less Wrong Wiki?

Comment author: phane 25 October 2009 07:45:10AM *  2 points [-]

These kinds of games just remind me of this Monty Python skit. There's no rules by which to play, so you're just trying to guess what the author is thinking.

Comment author: phane 17 May 2009 11:56:17AM 1 point [-]

I don't like this paper. It's wholly scathing for no reason other than to justify ignoring all of philosophy. Some philosophy is valuable and some is not, and of his 40 statements about three, I'd say 6 of them are claims I would take seriously and would hear arguments for, were I interested in the nature of three.

Generally, continental philosophy is trash, but I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Comment author: CannibalSmith 15 May 2009 02:29:15AM 1 point [-]

Then what is it that makes people jump the metaphorical fence?

Comment author: phane 15 May 2009 04:38:30AM 0 points [-]

From what anecdotal evidence I have, I'd say it doesn't have much to do with argument. People who discard their religious beliefs do so after feeling emotional alienation. The antagonistic context of a "my side versus their side" debate isn't amenable to that.

It's one thing to be told some (presumably good) reason to reject the God hypothesis. It's another to be honestly forced to reconcile it with events in your life story. Maybe they just don't "feel it" anymore; God's presence in their life isn't what it used to be. Or maybe they're forced to wrestle with the problem of evil, because something bad happened to a loved one. Maybe they have a spiritual-but-secular experience that makes it seem like the whole God idea is small-minded. Whatever the case, it takes a kind of emotional punch and not just a line of reasoning.

At least, that's what I would think.

Comment author: MBlume 14 May 2009 06:57:17AM 4 points [-]

The internet is full of atheists who grew up Christian.

As someone who took way too many whacks to the head to come around, I can tell you, it's doing good.

Comment author: phane 14 May 2009 08:07:05AM 2 points [-]

I'll take your word for it.

My intuition would be that nobody jumps the fence as a result of these sorts of things. They were either the sort who would have agreed with the conclusion without any argument anyway, or they will do mental gymnastics of all kinds in order to avoid believing the conclusion. But, having never really been religious, I'm probably wrong about that.

Comment author: phane 14 May 2009 06:22:46AM *  3 points [-]

QualiaSoup has some great videos, although many of them are in the excessively tired "trying to convince Christians that their religion isn't right" genre.

edit: Perhaps that's not the best name for the genre; it's more a kind of rational argumentation against ideas floating around the Christian memeosphere. But I'm still skeptical that it does very much good.

Comment author: phane 08 May 2009 12:32:42AM *  0 points [-]

I often find that there's not any satisfactory way to calibrate my expectations for things like this anyway. I was once emailed by someone who wanted to buy a domain name from me. He refused to give an offer, asking me to provide a price. I found it impossible to gauge what it was actually worth to me, or what I thought it would be worth to him, so I said I wouldn't sell it unless he made an offer. I never heard from him again.

So, sure. My future self can be convinced of a new minimum, for all I care. I apparently hold my ideas about this very lightly anyway. I'm not even sure he'd (I'd) be "wrong," even if I currently think of it as a lie.

Comment author: phane 07 May 2009 02:09:27PM 21 points [-]

I don't think "Not sending in your $200 rebate" and "not writing in an article to Overcomingbias" are the same phenomena at all.

It's not that people who are now writing all these LW posts felt like it was too much of a hassle to send an email to Overcomingbias; it's that deliberately and unusually sticking your neck out to contribute has a different social connotation than simply participating in the expected community behavior.

Contributing to Overcomingbias is like getting on stage: walking up to the stage is a socially loaded act in and of itself. "Hey, everyone, I'm going to stand out here and say something." Lesswrong, since the entire site is built around community posting, practically invites you to post as you please. There's nothing out of the ordinary about it. How could there be? The tools to do so are right there, embedded into the infrastructure of the site. It must be expected for me to do that!

Comment author: phane 07 May 2009 01:30:24PM *  4 points [-]

If you pose someone the Monty Hall Problem, and their response is "It doesn't matter whether I switch doors or not! They're going to move the prize so that I don't end up getting it anyway!" Do you think they've understood the point of the exercise?

Comment author: phane 06 May 2009 11:11:40AM 2 points [-]

Hi everybody. I'm a student who keeps changing fields. I have background in philosophy, psychology, cognitive science, and statistics. I grew up with a passion for knowledge, and independently rejected religion for naturalism at an early age, so I guess being a rationalist just came naturally. I'm a transhumanist; to be more precise, I think we'll have smarter-than-human cyborgs/bioborgs/uploads by about 2070, and I'd like to become one. I'm also optimistic about nanotechnology and the continued advancement of computing machinery.

I found Overcomingbias months ago after coming across Robin Hanson's talk about intelligent machines and the economy. The more I read of his work, the more it struck me that Robin is a very smart and admirable person, so I stuck around. Of course, this meant I read a lot of Eliezer's stuff as well, which I found I wrestled with a lot more (not to say I disagree with him all the time, just that his perspective is often quite different).

I'm interested in most of the topics that get thrown around in this community, although I profess to feeling that I don't have much to add in many cases. I'll see if I can't maintain a bit of activity, though. Nice meeting you all.

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