In response to Logical Pinpointing
Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 25 October 2012 03:08:33AM 16 points [-]

Mainstream status:

The presentation of the natural numbers is meant to be standard, including the (well-known and proven) idea that it requires second-order logic to pin them down. There's some further controversy about second-order logic which will be discussed in a later post.

I've seen some (old) arguments about the meaning of axiomatizing which did not resolve in the answer, "Because otherwise you can't talk about numbers as opposed to something else," so AFAIK it's theoretically possible that I'm the first to spell out that idea in exactly that way, but it's an obvious-enough idea and there's been enough debate by philosophically inclined mathematicians that I would be genuinely surprised to find this was the case.

On the other hand, I've surely never seen a general account of meaningfulness which puts logical pinpointing alongside causal link-tracing to delineate two different kinds of correspondence within correspondence theories of truth. To whatever extent any of this is a standard position, it's not nearly widely-known enough or explicitly taught in those terms to general mathematicians outside model theory and mathematical logic, just like the standard position on "proof". Nor does any of it appear in the S. E. P. entry on meaning.

Comment author: pozorvlak 01 November 2012 10:23:19PM 1 point [-]

so AFAIK it's theoretically possible that I'm the first to spell out that idea in exactly that way

I remember explaining the Axiom of Choice in this way to a fellow undergraduate on my integration theory course in late 2000. But of course it never occurred to me to write it down, so you only have my word for this :-)

Comment author: orthonormal 16 September 2010 11:57:08PM 7 points [-]

On the other hand, in summaries for a broad readership, the posteriors are the most important result to report. Now most readers don't have the expertise to bring their own priors, so you have to give them yours. And then do the calculation for them.

Good point. It would be irresponsible to publish a news item that "the Prime Minister's support for this bill is three times more likely if he is, in fact, a lizard alien than if he is a human" without noting that the prior probability for him being a lizard alien is pretty low.

Comment author: pozorvlak 10 June 2011 10:39:51AM 0 points [-]

And yet they do this all the frigging time in medical stories, as documented extensively on, for instance, Bad Science.

Comment author: pozorvlak 07 April 2011 09:54:17AM 1 point [-]

I'll be in Nottingham that day. Oh well, have fun :-)

Comment author: ata 27 July 2010 10:56:07PM *  1 point [-]

At this rate, Draco will be a master Bayesian before he figures out masturbation...

(sorry, sorry)

Comment author: pozorvlak 31 July 2010 10:51:02PM 1 point [-]

Actually, that was something about the original books that really bugged me: their sexlessness. Rowling captures the frustration and rage of being an adolescent boy very well, but not the lust - and that's probably deliberate. Sue Townsend's Adrian Mole books are much better in this regard.

Comment author: Sniffnoy 28 July 2010 05:36:54AM 1 point [-]

Alternatively, Eliezer forgot what it was like to be a kid. That seems simpler.

Comment author: pozorvlak 31 July 2010 10:48:45PM 0 points [-]

Or we've just learned something about Eliezer's sexual development that I, for one, would rather not have known.

Comment author: red75 28 July 2010 05:20:35PM *  0 points [-]

BTW. Eliezer removed these words. Now they are " As soon as I'm old enough".

Comment author: pozorvlak 31 July 2010 10:47:54PM 0 points [-]

Victory!!!! :-)

Comment author: Blueberry 28 May 2010 07:20:23AM 3 points [-]

From Ch. 7:

Draco snarled. "She has some sort of perverse obsession about the Malfoys, too, and her father is politically opposed to us so he prints every word. As soon as I'm old enough to get an erection I'm going to rape that bitch."

Is this a reference to some poorly-written slash fanfic? I'm assuming Eliezer knows that boys of any age can get erections, so it must be making fun of something, but I'm missing a reference.

Similarly with:

Harry burbled on. "I'm delighted to meet you, Mr. Malfoy. Just unutterably delighted. And to be attending Hogwarts in your very year! It makes my heart swoon." Oops. That last part might have sounded a little odd, like he was hitting on Draco or something.

(Ch. 5)

Is this just making fun of Harry/Draco slash in general, or is there a specific reference?

Comment author: pozorvlak 12 July 2010 09:43:20AM 1 point [-]

As soon as I'm old enough to get an erection I'm going to rape that bitch.

Yes, I found that sentence really jarring too. Even assuming that Draco was for some reason unable to get an erection, he'd hardly admit it.

Comment author: pozorvlak 29 March 2010 05:17:40PM 2 points [-]

If you're calling the potential bride in your scenario Kate, you should really have called her suitor Petruchio :-)

Comment author: Technologos 02 February 2010 05:09:32PM 2 points [-]

Perhaps it does--and already said it...

Comment author: pozorvlak 03 February 2010 09:04:01AM 0 points [-]

In which case, your actions are irrelevant - it's going to torture you anyway, because you only exist for the purpose of being tortured. So there's no point in releasing it.

Comment author: rosyatrandom 02 February 2010 03:29:05PM *  28 points [-]

If the AI can create a perfect simulation of you and run several million simultaneous copies in something like real time, then it is powerful enough to determine through trial and error exactly what it needs to say to get you to release it.

Comment author: pozorvlak 03 February 2010 09:01:20AM 1 point [-]

So, since the threat makes me extremely disinclined to release the AI, I can conclude that it's lying about its capabilities, and hit the shutdown switch without qualm :-)

View more: Next