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Comment author: johnswentworth 30 November 2016 05:07:13PM 6 points [-]

Let's use the school uniforms example.

The post mentions "uniforms make students feel better about themselves" as something to avoid. But that claim strongly suggests a second statement for the claimant: "I would have felt better about myself in middle school, if we'd had uniforms." A statement like that is a huge gateway into productive discussion.

First and foremost, that second statement is very likely the true cause for the claimant's position. Second, that feeling is something which will itself have causes! The claimant can then think back about their own experiences, and talk about why they feel that way.

Of course, that creates another pitfall to watch out for: argument by narrative, rather than statistics. It's easy to tell convincing stories. But if one or both participants know what's up, then each participant can produce a narrative to underlie their own feelings, and then the real discussion is over questions like (1) which of those narratives is more common in practice, (2) should we assign more weight to one type of experience, (3) what other types of experiences should we maybe consider, and (4) does the claim make sense even given the experience?

The crux is then the experiences: if I'd been through your experience in middle school, then I can see where I'd feel similarly about the uniforms. That doesn't mean your feeling is right - maybe signalling through clothing made your middle school experience worse somehow, but I argue that kids will find ways to signal regardless of uniform rules. But that would be a possible crux of the argument.

Comment author: rational_rob 07 December 2016 12:36:55PM 1 point [-]

I always thought of school uniforms as being a logical extension of the pseudo-fascist/nationalist model of running them. (I mean this in the pre-world war descriptive sense rather than the rhetorical sense that arose after the wars) Lots of schools, at least in America, try to encourage a policy of school unity with things like well-funded sports teams and school pep rallies. I don't know how well these policies work in practice, but if they're willing to go as far as they have now, school uniforms might contribute to whatever effects they hope to achieve. My personal opinion is in favor of school uniforms, but I'm mostly certain that's because I'm not too concerned with fashion or displays of wealth. I'd have to quiz some other people to find out for sure.

Comment author: Huluk 26 March 2016 12:55:37AM *  26 points [-]

[Survey Taken Thread]

By ancient tradition, if you take the survey you may comment saying you have done so here, and people will upvote you and you will get karma.

Let's make these comments a reply to this post. That way we continue the tradition, but keep the discussion a bit cleaner.

Comment author: rational_rob 07 April 2016 01:36:31AM *  0 points [-]

Wait! Crap! I already replied. Good thing I caught this before anyone upvoted it.

Comment author: Huluk 26 March 2016 12:55:37AM *  26 points [-]

[Survey Taken Thread]

By ancient tradition, if you take the survey you may comment saying you have done so here, and people will upvote you and you will get karma.

Let's make these comments a reply to this post. That way we continue the tradition, but keep the discussion a bit cleaner.

Comment author: rational_rob 29 March 2016 02:27:41AM 32 points [-]

I have taken the survey.