RHollerith

Richard Hollerith. 15 miles north of San Francisco. hruvulum@gmail.com

My probability that AI research will end all human life is .92.  It went up drastically when Eliezer started going public with his pessimistic assessment in April 2022. Till then my confidence in MIRI (and knowing that MIRI has enough funding to employ many researchers) was keeping my probability down to about .4. (I am glad I found out about Eliezer's assessment.)

Currently I am willing to meet with almost anyone on the subject of AI extinction risk.

Last updated 26 Sep 2023.

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Let me reassure you that there’s more than enough protein available in plant-based foods. For example, here’s how much grams of protein there is in 100 gram of meat

That is misleading because most foods are mostly water, included the (cooked) meats you list, but the first 4 of the plant foods you list have had their water artificially removed: soy protein isolate; egg white, dried; spirulina algae, dried; baker’s yeast.

Moreover, the human gut digests and absorbs more of animal protein than of plant protein. Part of the reason for this is the plant protein includes more fragments that are impervious to digestive enzymes in the human gut and more fragments (e.g., lectins) that interfere with human physiology.

Moreover, there are many people who can and do eat 1 or even 2 lb of cooked meat every day without obvious short-term consequences whereas most people who would try to eat 1 lb of spirulina (dry weight) or baker's yeast (dry weight) in a day would probably get acute distress of the gut before the end of the day even if the spirulina or yeast was mixed with plenty of other food containing plenty of water, fiber, etc. Or at least that would be my guess (having eaten small amounts of both things): has anyone made the experiment?

The very short answer is that the people with the most experience in alignment research (Eliezer and Nate Soares) say that without an AI pause lasting many decades the alignment project is essentially hopeless because there is not enough time. Sure, it is possible the alignment project succeeds in time, but the probability is really low.

Eliezer has said that AIs based on the deep-learning paradigm are probably particularly hard to align, so it would probably help to get a ban or a long pause on that paradigm even if research in other paradigms continues, but good luck getting even that because almost all of the value currently being provided by AI-based services are based on deep-learning AIs.

One would think that it would be reassuring to know that the people running the labs are really smart and obviously want to survive (and have their children survive) but it is only reassuring before one listens to what they say and reads what they write about their plans on how to prevent human extinction and other catastrophic risks. (The plans are all quite inadequate.)

I'm going to use "goal system" instead of "goals" because a list of goals is underspecified without some method for choosing which goal prevails when two goals "disagree" on the value of some outcome.

wouldn’t we then want ai to improve its own goals to achieve new ones that have increased effectiveness and improving the value of the world?

That is contradictory: the AI's goal system is the single source of truth for the effectiveness and how much of an improvement is any change in the world.

I would need a definition of AGI before I could sensibly answer those questions.

ChatGPT is already an artificial general intelligence by the definition I have been using for the last 25 years.

I think the leaders of the labs have enough private doubts about the safety of their enterprise that if an effective alignment method were available to them, they would probably adopt the method (especially if the group that devised the method do not seem particularly to care who gets credit for having devised it). I.e., my guess is that almost all of the difficulty is in devising an effective alignment method, not getting the leading lab to adopt it. (Making 100% sure that the leading lab adopts it is almost impossible, but acting in such a way that the leading lab will adopt it with p = .6 is easy, and the current situation is so dire that we should jump at any intervention with a .6 chance of a good outcome.)

Eliezer stated recently (during an interview on video) that the deep-learning paradigm seems particularly hard to align, so it would be nice to get the labs to focus on a different paradigm (even if we do not yet have a way to align the different paradigm) but that seems almost impossible unless and until the other paradigm has been developed to the extent that it can create models that are approximately as capable as deep-learning models.

The big picture is that the alignment project seems almost completely hopeless IMHO because of the difficulty of aligning the kind of designs the labs are using and the difficulty of inducing the labs to switch to easier-to-align designs.

Your question would have been better without the dig at theists and non-vegans.

However, whereas the concept of an unaligned general intelligence has the advantage of being a powerful, general abstraction, the HMS concept has the advantage of being much easier to explain to non-experts.

The trouble with the choice of phrase "hyperintelligent machine sociopath" is that it gives the other side of the argument and easy rebuttal, namely, "But that's not what we are trying to do: we're not trying to create a sociopath". In contrast, if the accusation is that (many of) the AI labs are trying to create a machine smarter than people, then the other side cannot truthfully use the same easy rebuttal. Then our side can continue with, "and they don't have a plan for how to control this machine, at least not any plan that stands up to scrutiny". The phrase "unaligned superintelligence" is an extremely condensed version of the argument I just outlined (where the verb "control" has been replaced with "align" to head off the objection that control would not even be desirable because people are not wise enough and not ethical enough to be given control over something so powerful).

An influential LW participant, Jim Miller, who I think is a professor of economics, has written here that divestment does little good because any reduction in the stock price caused by pulling the investments can be counteracted by profit-motivated actors. For publicly-traded stocks, there is a robust supply of of profit-motivated actors scanning for opportunities. I am eager for more discussion on this topic.

I am alarmed to see that I made a big mistake in my previous comment: where I wrote that "contributing more money to AI-safety charities has almost no positive effects", I should have written "contributing to technical alignment research has almost no positive effects". I have nothing bad to say about contributing money to groups addressing the AI threat in other ways, e.g., by spreading the message that AI research is dangerous or lobbying governments to shut it down.

Answer by RHollerith2-1

money generated by increases in AI stock could be used to invest in efforts into AI safety, which receives comparably less money

In the present situation, contributing more money to AI-safety charities has almost no positive effects and does almost nothing to make AI "progress" less dangerous. (In fact, in my estimation, the overall effect of all funding for alignment research so far has make the situation a little worse, by publishing insights that will tend to be usable by capability researchers without making non-negligible progress towards an eventual practical alignment solution.)

If you disagree with me, then please name the charity you believe can convert donations into an actual decrease in p(doom) or say something about how a charity would spend money to decrease the probability of disaster.

Just to be perfectly clear: I support the principle, which I believe has always been operative on LW, that people who are optimistic about AI or who are invested in AI companies are welcome to post on LW.

So let's do it first, before the evil guys do it, but let's do it well from the start!

The trouble is no one knows how to do it well. No one knows how to keep an AI aligned as the AI's capabilities start exceeding human capabilities, and if you believe experts like Eliezer and Connor Leahy, it is very unlikely that anyone is going to figure it out before the lack of this knowledge causes human extinction or something equally dire.

It is only a slight exaggeration to say that the only thing keeping the current crop of AI systems from killing us all (or killing most of us and freezing some of us in case we end up having some use in the future) is simply that no AI or coalition of AIs so far is capable of doing it.

Actually there is a good way to do it: shut down all AI research till humanity figures out alignment, which will probably require waiting for a generation of humans significantly smarter than the current generation, which in turn will require probably at least a few centuries.

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