Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 03 July 2008 06:58:40PM 3 points [-]

Paul: Responsiveness to which reasons? For every mind in mind design space that sees X as a reason to value Y, there are other possible minds that see X as a reason to value ~Y.

Comment author: rkyeun 23 July 2013 07:54:08AM 1 point [-]

The answer to "Friendly to who?" had damn well better always be "Friendly to the author and by proxy those things the author wants." Otherwise leaving aside what it actually is friendly to, it was constructed by a madman.

Comment author: CannibalSmith 05 February 2009 11:43:29AM 17 points [-]

MISSION COMPLETE

Ships Ships Planets Planets Destroyed Lost Destroyed Lost Humans 0 1 0 1 Babyeaters 0 1 0 0 Superhappies 1 0 0 0

Comment author: rkyeun 23 July 2013 06:42:09AM *  4 points [-]
 SD SL PD PL
Humans | X | X | 1 | 1
Babyeaters | 0 | Y | 0 | Z
Superhappies | Y | 0 | Z | -Z

X= Ships unable to escape Huygens

Y= Ships in Babyeater Fleet

Z= Planets Babyeaters Have

Comment author: TGGP3 04 August 2007 06:05:23AM 1 point [-]

The difference is that ethics are not falsifiable. This leads me to believe there are no ethical truths.

Comment author: rkyeun 15 January 2013 05:07:22PM 1 point [-]

Morality is about the thriving of sentient beings.

There are in fact truths about that.

For example: Stabbing - generally a bad thing if the being is made of flesh and organs.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 11 January 2011 02:28:48PM 4 points [-]

it takes place in a universe where consensus reality is true, and thus the scientific method fails as a way to understand the universe, since the laws of physics are determined by how many people believe in them.

I know nothing about the story/game you're talking about, but I think this is an important and common misconception, and fanfiction that addressed it directly might be worthwhile.

If it were an utterly chaotic universe, like what Brunner portrays in the Traveller in Black stories, then I might agree, but what you describe sounds instead like a universe with a regular and predictable relationship between people's beliefs and events in the world.

I'd love to see stories about a rigorous thinker in such a universe working out ways to exploit its ground rules.

Comment author: rkyeun 05 December 2012 11:31:57PM *  0 points [-]

We close a feedback loop in which people believe that the universe acts in its own predictable way which is discoverable by science. Which causes the universe to actually be that way. And from then on it becomes unalterable because it no longer cares what anyone thinks. The real problem is that of morals. If the universe can be anything people want, then we had better hurry up and figure out what the best possible world actually is, and then get people to believe it to be that way before we lock it in place as actually being that way.

Comment author: OnTheOtherHandle 29 July 2012 06:15:00PM *  1 point [-]

That's a good point. In this version, the Avatar doesn't have to be a spiritual Chosen One - he/she could just be genetically lucky the way extremely high-IQ people are in our world.

Edit: However, I think that would defeat the point of fantasy rationalism, and might make the world too mundane. It would, however, be really interesting to see Aang go to the Spirit World and try to convince whatever spirits originally created the Avatar to make another one, possibly one with more raw intelligence to be more effective. (And then maybe deal with the fallout if this new Avatar is not as moral or noble as he is - FAI analogy, anyone?) The point of most of these rationalist fanfics is that one good rationalist can cause some Big Changes to their world, right? Multiple Avatars would be a Big Change.

Comment author: rkyeun 05 December 2012 11:24:38PM *  1 point [-]

Unless he's in the Avatar State, an Avatar is not a native to the other modes of thinking outside his own element. He is aware of them, and can purposefully invoke them once he's been trained, but they are not ingrained and reflexive. The Avatar State is a (hopefully) friendly (to you) AI, drawing upon the history and knowledge and personal ethical injunctions and methodologies of all past Avatars. And it renders its verdicts with terrifying efficiency and callousness without explanation to those watching.

Comment author: Peterdjones 20 November 2012 01:06:26PM *  1 point [-]

A simulation consists of an inner part that is being simulated and an outer part that is doing the simulating. However perfect the inner part is, it is not the same as the historic event because the historic event did not have the outer part. There is also the issue that in some cases a thing's history is taken to be part of it identity. A perfect replica of the Mona Lisa created in a laboratory would not be the Mona Lisa, since part of the identity of The Mona Lisa is its having been painted by Leonardo.

Comment author: rkyeun 23 November 2012 04:42:39PM 4 points [-]

However perfect the inner part is, it is not the same as the historic event because the historic event did not have the outer part.

False. The outer part is irrelevant to the inner part in a perfect simulation. The outer part can exert no causal influence, or you won't get a perfect reply of the original event's presumed lack of outer part.

There is also the issue that in some cases a thing's history is taken to be part of it identity.

A thing's history causes it. If you aren't simulating it properly, that's your problem. A perfect simulation of the Mona Lisa was in fact painted by Leonardo, provable in all the same ways you claim the original was.

Comment author: Manfred 12 October 2012 07:40:49PM *  2 points [-]

Well, one can still think of it causally - you can still draw a graph with arrows, at least. But it's atypical causality.

Typical causality is like kicking a ball. The ball sits still until you kick it, and you can kick it however you like and it will roll away. But once you have loops, it's like if the ball had to go through a portal to the past and kick itself. As soon as you try to kick the ball, the ball you would have kicked has already gone back to the past and hit itself in a way consistent with the motion of your foot, so it will feel quite unlike kicking the first ball. And in fact it is physically impossible to move your foot in a way inconsistent with the ball being the cause of its own motion, even though trying to kick the ball restricts the possibilities - or rather, being able to try to kick the ball tells you that the possibilities were already restricted...

In typical causality, the ball has a reason for moving the way it does - you can trace the motion backwards to some acceptable starting point, like "I kicked it as hard as I could toward the fence." When you add cycles, tracing the chain of arrows back does not need to end at anything you find remotely satisfactory or even unique - "the ball moved because it hit itself because it moved because it hit itself..."

Comment author: rkyeun 20 November 2012 06:25:22AM 0 points [-]

When you add cycles, tracing the chain of arrows back does not need to end at anything you find remotely satisfactory or even unique - "the ball moved because it hit itself because it moved because it hit itself..."

This is a problem with your personal intuitions as a medium-sized multicellular century-lived mammalian tetrapod. No event in this chain is left uncaused, and there are no causes which lack effects in this model. Causality is satisfied. If you are not, that's your problem. Hell, the energy is even conserved. It runs in a spatial as well as a temporal circle, what with the ball hitting itself and skidding to a stop exactly where it was sitting to wait for the next hit. On the other hand, in such a universe quantum mechanics does not apply, because worldlines cannot split, which also removes any possibility of entropy. ALL interactions are 100% efficient.

Comment author: Peterdjones 30 October 2012 03:38:10AM *  3 points [-]

The great virtue of valid logic in argument, rather, is that logical argument exposes premises, so that anyone who disagrees with your conclusion has to (a) point out a premise they disagree with or (b) point out an invalid step in reasoning which is strongly liable to generate false statements from true statements.

Further to that, there is an advantage to the maker of an argument, in that they have to make explicit assumptions they may not have realised they were making. Speaking of imoplicit assumptions...

For example: Nick Bostrom put forth the Simulation Argument, which is that you must disagree with either statement (1) or (2) or else agree with statement (3):

(1) Earth-originating intelligent life will, in the future, acquire vastly greater computing resources.

(2) Some of these computing resources will be used to run many simulations of ancient Earth, aka "ancestor simulations".

(3) We are almost certainly living in a computer simulation.

(3) is not entailed by the conjunction of (1) and (2). You also need to assume something like "the kind of consciousness we have is computationally simulable". If that is false, no amount of computing power will make the argument work.

Comment author: rkyeun 20 November 2012 05:29:59AM 1 point [-]

Law of Identity. If you "perfectly simulate" Ancient Earth, you've invented a time machine and this is the actual Ancient Earth.

If there's some difference, then what you're simulating isn't actually Ancient Earth, and instead your computer hardware is literally the god of a universe you've created, which is a fact about our universe we could detect.

In response to Awww, a Zebra
Comment author: rkyeun 30 September 2012 06:51:57PM *  2 points [-]

If there is a better way to see a merely real zebra than to have the photons strike a surface, their patterns be stored, and transmitted to my brain, which cross-relates it to every fact about zebras, their behavior, habitat, physiology, and personality on my internal map of a zebra, then I don't know it and can't experience it, since that's what happens when I am in fact actually there, as well as what happens when I look at a picture that someone who was actually there shares with me.

In response to comment by rkyeun on Failed Utopia #4-2
Comment author: kibber 21 September 2012 10:21:02PM 1 point [-]

...from Venus, and only animals left on Earth, so one more planet than we had before.

In response to comment by kibber on Failed Utopia #4-2
Comment author: rkyeun 26 September 2012 01:49:23PM 1 point [-]

Well, until we get back there. It's still ours even if we're on vacation.

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