Comment author: James_Miller 19 June 2016 08:14:09PM 3 points [-]

Huge, thin mirrors in orbit over the equator that reflect light that would have hit the equator to the area of earth experiencing winter.

Comment author: roystgnr 20 June 2016 07:05:51PM 2 points [-]

There's a high-stakes variational calculus problem. For what seasonal temperature profile do we get the best long-term minimum for the sum of "deaths due to extreme cold" and "deaths due to tropical diseases whose vector insects are stymied by extreme cold".

Comment author: gwern 29 April 2016 12:12:31AM *  2 points [-]

And they also vary CO2 levels systematically by geography as well; if that was enough for a detectable effect on IQ, then the lower CO2 levels around Denver should make the rest of us at lower altitudes, such as sea level, look obviously handicapped. If you believe the altitude point refutes effects of oxygen, then it must refute effects of carbon dioxide and nitrogen as well...

Which is part of my original point about implausible effect sizes: the causal effect is underidentified, but whether it's oxygen or CO2 or nitrogen, it is so large that we should be able to see its repercussions all over in things like the weather (or altitude, yes).

Comment author: roystgnr 29 April 2016 03:12:50PM 1 point [-]

The magnitude of the variation isn't nearly the same in the O2 vs CO2 cases. "16% O2 reduction is lost in the noise" is devastating evidence against the theory "0.2% O2 reduction has significant cognitive effects", but "16% CO2 reduction is lost in the noise" is weaker evidence against the theory "66% and 300% CO2 increases have significant cognitive effects".

I'm not arguing with you about implausible effect sizes, though. We should especially see significant seasonal effects in every climate where people typically seal up buildings against the cold or the heat for months at a time.

Comment author: gwern 27 April 2016 12:13:53AM 1 point [-]

Small proportional changes seem unlikely to drive big effects, unless there is some feedback mechanism that is keeping the level precisely balanced.

Such as in the body, dealing with tightly regulated and critical aspects of metabolism like oxygen consumption.

But 1% changes in oxygen should be happening all over the place.

Perhaps they are. You don't know the effect because the existing experiments do not vary or hold constant oxygen levels. All you see is the net average effect, without any sort of partitioning among causes.

Comment author: roystgnr 28 April 2016 03:20:22PM 1 point [-]

You don't know the effect because the existing experiments do not vary or hold constant oxygen levels. All you see is the net average effect, without any sort of partitioning among causes.

Existing experiments do vary oxygen levels systematically, albeit usually unintentionally, by geography. Going up 100 meters from sea level gives you a 1% drop in oxygen pressure and density. If that was enough for a detectable effect on IQ, then even the 16% lower oxygen levels around Denver should leave Coloradans obviously handicapped. IIRC altitude sickness does show a strong effect on mental performance, but only at significantly lower air pressures still.

Comment author: gwern 21 April 2016 05:59:02PM *  6 points [-]

It doesn't matter if some of the group differences are genetic in origin, given that others are not, we can still resolve those.

Those can be resolved but they will not make nearly as large a difference as currently expected, where current ideologies hold that all of that 3-190x per capita difference is due to environmental conditions, history, and racism. HBD implies that, just as with individual differences and the systematic failure of welfare and education randomized experiments to 'close the gap', we can expect this futility to occur on a country-level basis at some level of development. Countries like China (maybe) and North Korea (definitely) will be predicted to escape their current poverty levels with appropriate interventions... and countries like Subsaharan Africa to possibly not escape. (Which countries can be made more concrete in a HBD context by taking Piffer's country/group-level polygenic scores and looking at the residuals of a GDP/score regression for the countries which most over and underperform; the former can be predicted to not grow substantially, and the latter can be predicted to grow substantially.)

Remember how heritability works. If environments improve, genetics will explain more and more of variance. It's Liebig's barrel. Shared-environment in the USA is very small.

Do the implications here change?

Yes, because those environmental factors are causally downstream and cannot be improved without the locals. As development aid has discovered again and again, you cannot force improvements on a country. Pakistan, for example, is so dysfunctional and clannish that iodization and polio programs have had serious trouble making any headway.

The steps we should take don't depend on HBD being true or false.

Yes, they do! These causal models are fundamentally different. If genetics is a major limiting factor, iodine and all other environmental factors are not going to help past a certain level of development. (You can feed some Americans or New Zealanders iodine supplements, but it won't give them +10 IQ points even though they are probably somewhat deficient). If genetics is the major limiting factor, then at a certain point, you are basically polishing a turd and this can either be accepted or more radical interventions must be considered.

In response to comment by gwern on Suppose HBD is True
Comment author: roystgnr 21 April 2016 07:02:42PM -2 points [-]

Pakistan, for example, is so dysfunctional and clannish that iodization and polio programs have had serious trouble making any headway.

To be fair, that's not entirely Pakistanis' fault. Is paranoia about Communist fluoridation plots more or less dysfunctional than paranoia about CIA vaccination plots? Does it make a difference that only the latter has a grain of truth to it?

In response to Positivity Thread :)
Comment author: username2 09 April 2016 11:13:57AM 2 points [-]

What are your favorite puns?

Comment author: roystgnr 12 April 2016 09:02:21PM 6 points [-]
Comment author: roystgnr 12 April 2016 08:38:30PM *  0 points [-]

This looks like a special case of a failure of intentionality. If a child knows where the marble is, they've managed first-order intentionality, but if they don't realize that Sally doesn't know where the marble is, they've failed at second order.

The orders go higher, though, and it's not obvious how much higher humans can naturally go. If

Bob thinks about "What does Alice think about Bob?" and on rare occasions "What does Alice think Bob thinks about Alice?" but will not organically reason "What does Alice think Bob thinks about Alice's model of Bob?"

then Bob can handle second and third but can't easily handle fourth order intentionality.

It may be a useful writing skill to be comfortable with intentionality at one level higher than your audience.

Comment author: gjm 23 March 2016 12:07:38AM *  4 points [-]

all the good ideas have turned out to be simple

Yeah, right.

[EDITED to add:] I don't disagree with the overall thrust of the post, and I agree that a lot of good scientific ideas have turned out to be simple. But that was one step too much hyperbole for me.

Comment author: roystgnr 23 March 2016 01:27:20PM 3 points [-]

I'd agree that most of the best scientific ideas have been relatively simple... but that's at least partly selection bias.

Compare two possible ideas:

"People with tuberculosis should be given penicillum extract"

"People with tuberculosis should be given (2S,5R,6R)-3,3-dimethyl-7-oxo-6-(2-phenylacetamido)-4-thia-1-azabicyclo[3.2.0]heptane-2-carboxylic acid"

The first idea is no better than the second. But we'd have taken forever to come up with the second, complex idea by just sifting through all the equally-chemically-complex alternatives; we actually came up with it as a refinement of the first, much simpler (in the context of our world) idea. There are surely many even-better complex ideas out there, but searching through idea space brings you to simpler ideas earlier and so they're disproportionately represented.

Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 14 March 2016 02:05:30AM 5 points [-]

I loved your post, but I also think metatroll's comment is funny. I don't think it's anything but a joke.

Comment author: roystgnr 15 March 2016 03:35:17PM 8 points [-]

(the following isn't off-topic, I promise:)

Attention, people who have a lot of free time and want to found the next reddit:

When a site user upvotes and downvotes things, you use that data to categorize that user's preferences (you'll be doing a very sparse SVD sort of operation under the hood). Their subsequent votes can be decomposed into expressions of the most common preference vectors, and their browsing can then be sorted by decomposed-votes-with-personalized-weightings.

This will make you a lot of friends (people who want to read ramblings about philosophy won't be inundated with cute kitten pictures and vice versa, even if they use the same site), make you a lot of money (better-targeted advertising pays better), solve the problem above (people who like and people who hate trollish jokes won't need to come to a consensus), and solve the problem way above ("predisposition towards rationalism" will probably be one of the top ten or twenty principal components to fall out of your SVD).

It will also create new problems (how much easier will it be to hide in a bubble of people who share your political opinions? how do you filter out redundancy?) but those can be fixed in subsequent steps.

For now it's just embarrassing that modern forums don't have either the same level of fine-grained preferences that you could find on Slashdot 15 years ago ("Funny" vs "Informative" etc) or the killfile capabilities you could find in Usenet readers 25 years ago.

Comment author: Baughn 20 January 2016 03:48:12AM 1 point [-]

It's circular, and square.

That's literally all there is. I can't imagine it visually, the way I usually would. Wonder why. :P

Comment author: roystgnr 20 January 2016 06:05:47AM 0 points [-]

I can imagine it. You just have to embed it in a non-Euclidean geometry. A great circle can be constructed from 4 straight lines, and thus is a square, and it still has every point at a fixed distance from a common center (okay, 2 common centers), and thus is a circle.

Comment author: Usul 05 January 2016 04:17:11AM 1 point [-]

There exists an irrational number which is 100 minus delta where delta is infinitesimally small. In my celestial language we call it "Bob". I choose Bob. Also I name the person who recognizes that the increase in utility between a 9 in the googleplex decimal place and a 9 in the googleplex+1 decimal place is not worth the time it takes to consider its value, and who therefore goes out to spend his utility on blackjack and hookers displays greater rationality than the person who does not.

Seriously, though, isn't this more of an infinity paradox rather than an indictment on perfect rationality? There are areas where the ability to mathematically calculate breaks down, ie naked singularities, Uncertainty Principle, as well as infinity. Isn't this more the issue at hand: that we can't be perfectly rational where we can't calculate precisely?

Comment author: roystgnr 06 January 2016 01:30:51AM 0 points [-]

There exists an irrational number which is 100 minus delta where delta is infinitesimally small.

Just as an aside, no there isn't. Infinitesimal non-zero numbers can be defined, but they're "hyperreals", not irrationals.

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