Comment author: scmbradley 14 March 2012 01:05:05PM 3 points [-]

There are a couple of things I find odd about this. First, it seems to be taken for granted that one-boxing is obviously better than two boxing, but I'm not sure that's right. J.M. Joyce has an argument (in his foundations of causal decision theory) that is supposed to convince you that two-boxing is the right solution. Importantly, he accepts that you might still wish you weren't a CDT (so that Omega predicted you would one-box). But, he says, in either case, once the boxes are in front of you, whether you are a CDT or a EDT, you should two-box! The dominance reasoning works in either case, once the prediction has been made and the boxes are in front of you.

But this leads me on to my second point. I'm not sure how much of a flaw Newcomb's problem is in a decision theory, given that it relies on the intervention of an alien that can accurately predict what you will do. Let's leave aside the general problem of predicting real agents' actions with that degree of accuracy. If you know that the prediction of your choice affects the success of your choices, I think that reflexivity or self reference simply makes the prediction meaningless. We're all used to self-reference being tricky, and I think in this case it just undermines the whole set up. That is, I don't see the force of the objection from Newcomb's problem, because I don't think it's a problem we could ever possibly face.

Here's an example of a related kind of "reflexivity makes prediction meaningless". Let's say Omega bets you $100 that she can predict what you will eat for breakfast. Once you accept this bet, you now try to think of something that you would never otherwise think to eat for breakfast, in order to win the bet. The fact that your actions and the prediction of your actions have been connected in this way by the bet makes your actions unpredictable.

Going on to the prisoner's dilemma. Again, I don't think that it's the job of decision theory to get "the right" result in PD. Again, the dominance reasoning seems impeccable to me. In fact, I'm tempted to say that I would want any future advanced decision theory to satisfy some form of this dominance principle: it's crazy to ever choice an act that is guaranteed to be worse. All you need to do to "fix" PD is to have the agent attach enough weight to the welfare of others. That's not a modification of the decision theory, that's a modification of the utility function.

Comment author: scmbradley 17 February 2012 05:09:59PM 1 point [-]

As I understand what is meant by satisficing, this misses the mark. A satisficer will search for an action until it finds one that is good enough, then it will do that. A maximiser will search for the best action and then do that. A bounded maximser will search for the "best" (best according to its bounded utility function) and then do that.

So what the satisficer picks depends on what order the possible actions are presented to it in a way it doesn't for either maximiser. Now, if easier options are presented to it first then I guess your conclusion still follows, as long as we grant the premise that self-transforming will be easy.

But I don't think it's right to identify bounded maximisers and satisficers.

Comment author: scmbradley 03 February 2012 09:25:26PM 10 points [-]

Any logically coherent body of doctrine is sure to be in part painful and contrary to current prejudices

– Bertrand Russell, History of Western Philosophy p. 98

Bertie is a goldmine of rationality quotes.

Comment author: fool 19 January 2012 08:47:03PM 0 points [-]

Agreed, the structural component is not normative. But to me, it is the structural part that seems benign.

If we assume the agent lives forever, and there's always some uncertainty, then surely the world is thus and so. If the agent doesn't live forever, then we're into bounded rationality questions, and even transitivity is up in the air.

Comment author: scmbradley 02 February 2012 01:56:59PM 0 points [-]

P6 entails that there are (uncountably) infinitely many events. It is at least compatible with modern physics that the world is fundamentally discrete both spatially and temporally. The visible universe is bounded. So it may be that there are only finitely many possible configurations of the universe. It's a big number sure, but if it's finite, then Savage's theorem is irrelevant. It doesn't tell us anything about what to believe in our world. This is perhaps a silly point, and there's probably a nearby theorem that works for "appropriately large finite worlds", but still. I don't think you can just uncritically say "surely the world is thus and so".

If this is supposed to say something normative about how I should structure my beliefs, then the structural premises should be true of the world I have beliefs about.

Comment author: scmbradley 02 February 2012 01:43:12PM 36 points [-]

The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem, in a way that will allow a solution

– Bertrand Russell

Comment author: scmbradley 02 February 2012 01:41:43PM 18 points [-]

Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which isn't there

-E.H. Gombrich

Comment author: Manfred 19 January 2012 11:56:27AM 1 point [-]

Suppose that I wanted to demonstrate conclusively that a generalization was false. I would have to provide one or more counterexamples. What sort of thing would be a counterexample to the claim "each party to all disputes that persist through long periods of time is partly right and partly wrong?" Well, it would have to be a dispute that persisted through long periods of time, but in which there was a party that was not partly right and partly wrong.

So in my above reply, I listed some disputes that persisted for long periods of time, but in which there was (or is) a party that was not partly right and partly wrong.

Comment author: scmbradley 19 January 2012 01:50:52PM 0 points [-]

Ah I see now. Glad we cleared that up.

Still, I think there's something to the idea that if there is a genuine debate about some claim that lasts a long time, then there might well be some truth on either side. So perhaps Russell was wrong to universally quantify over "debates" (as your counterexamples might show), but I think there is something to the claim.

Comment author: fool 19 January 2012 02:12:14AM 0 points [-]

P6 is really both. Structurally, it forces there to be something like a coin that we can flip as many times as we want. But normatively, we can say that if the agent has blah blah blah preference, it shall be able to name a partition such that blah blah blah. See e.g. [rule 4]. This of course doesn't address why we think such a thing is normative, but that's another issue.

Comment author: scmbradley 19 January 2012 11:13:59AM 0 points [-]

But why ought the world be such that such a partition exists for us to name? That doesn't seem normative. I guess there's a minor normative element in that it demands "If the world conspires to allow us to have partitions like the ones needed in P6, then the agent must be able to know of them and reason about them" but that still seems secondary to the demand that the world is thus and so.

Comment author: Manfred 18 January 2012 06:33:59PM 0 points [-]

Right. So calling it a "false generalization" needed two words.

Anyhow: Where does the sun go at night? How big is the earth? Is it harmful to market cigarettes to teenagers? Is Fermat's last theorem true? Can you square the circle? Will heathens burn in hell for all eternity?

Comment author: scmbradley 19 January 2012 11:10:55AM 0 points [-]

Er. What? You can call it a false generalisation all you like, that isn't in itself enough to convince me it is false. (It may well be false, that's not what's at stake here). You seem to be suggesting that merely by calling it a generalisation is enough to impugn its status.

And in homage to your unconvential arguing style, here are some non sequituurs: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Did Thomas Aquinas prefer red wine or white wine? Was Stalin lefthanded? What colour were Sherlock Holmes' eyes?

Comment author: scmbradley 18 January 2012 03:38:27PM 0 points [-]

This thought isn't original to me, but it's probably worth making. It feels like there are two sorts of axioms. I am following tradition in describing them as "rationality axioms" and "structure axioms". The rationality axioms (like the transitivity of the order among acts) are norms on action. The structure axioms (like P6) aren't normative at all. (It's about structure on the world, how bizarre is it to say "The world ought to be such that P6 holds of it"?)

Given this, and given the necessity of the structure axioms for the proof, it feels like Savage's theorem can't serve as a justification of Bayesian epistemolgy as a norm of rational behaviour.

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