Comment author: shirisaya 08 November 2014 03:43:56AM 20 points [-]

I took the survey and answered every question. As usual, I found my ability to correctly answer the calibration questions comically bad . . . but hopefully well calibrated.

Comment author: shirisaya 22 November 2013 05:13:38PM 35 points [-]

I completed every question on the survey that I could.

Comment author: shirisaya 05 November 2012 03:37:19PM 26 points [-]

I took the survey and answered everything through the political compass.

Comment author: shirisaya 01 November 2011 08:23:22PM 9 points [-]

I took the survey and was annoyed to realize that I didn't have a strong enough background to have informed answers to several questions.

Comment author: Z_M_Davis 18 August 2009 03:56:33AM *  2 points [-]

If anyone knows of a really good summary for somebody who's actually studied physics on why MWI is so great (and sadly, Eliezer's posts here and on overcomingbias don't do it for me) I would greatly appreciate the pointer.

You say Eliezer's posts didn't do it for you, but how much of it did you read? In particular, the point about parsimony favoring MWI is explained in "Decoherence is Simple". As for the mechanism of world divergence, I think the answer is that "worlds" are not an ontologically basic element of the theory. Rather, the theory is about complex amplitude in configuration space, and then from our perspective embedded within the physics, the evolution of the wavefunction seems like "worlds" "splitting."

Comment author: shirisaya 18 August 2009 03:04:37PM *  1 point [-]

You say Eliezer's posts didn't do it for you, but how much of it did you read?

I have read every post on overcomingbias and I'm pretty sure I've ready every top-level post by Eliezer on less wrong. Although I very much enjoyed Eliezer's posts on the issue, they were intended for a wide audience and I'm looking for a technical discussion.

Comment author: timtyler 18 August 2009 08:02:19AM *  0 points [-]

The first sentence lays out the issue:

"the law conservation of energy is based on observations within each world. All observations within each world are consistent with conservation of energy, therefore energy is conserved."

Conservation of energy takes place within worlds, not between them.

FWIW, I first learned about the MWI from: Paul C.W. Davies' book: "Other Worlds" - waay back in the 1980s. It was quite readable - and one of the better popular books on QM from that era. It succeeded in conveying the "Occam" advantage of the theory.

Comment author: shirisaya 18 August 2009 02:56:16PM 1 point [-]

OK, if that's really what it takes I guess I'll leave it at that. But I don't see the loss of generality from conservation laws operating on any closed system as a good thing, and I can't understand how weighting a world (that is claimed to actually exist) by a probability measure (that I've seen claimed to be meant as observed frequencies) is actually a reasonable thing to do.

I would actually like to understand this, and I suspect strongly that I'm missing something basic. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to make my ignorance suitable for public consumption, but if anyone would like to help enlighten me privately, I'd be delighted.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 18 August 2009 04:18:54AM 3 points [-]

if multiple worlds really are "splitting"

What if instead of talking about "many worlds" we just said "no collapse"? If there's just this state and it evolves according to Schroedinger's equation. Then then of course there's conservation of energy.

Comment author: shirisaya 18 August 2009 02:34:05PM 0 points [-]

Sure, I'm certainly not saying that the Copenhagen interpretation is correct, and my understanding is that a decoherence view is both more useful and simpler. MWI (at least as I understand it) is a significantly stronger claim. When we take the probabilities that come from wave state amplitudes as observed frequencies among actually existing "worlds" then we are claiming that there are many different versions of me that actually exist. It's this last part that I find a bit of a stretch.

Comment author: timtyler 17 August 2009 09:05:46PM *  3 points [-]

For energy conservation see:

http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm#violate

The main reason for following the MWI is Occam's razor:

http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm#ockham%27s

Comment author: shirisaya 18 August 2009 03:21:33AM 0 points [-]

Thank you, this is exactly the type of linking that I was looking for. Unfortunately, the FAQ that you so kindly provided isn't providing the rigor that I'm looking for. In fact, for the energy conservation portion, I think (although I'm by no means certain) that the argument has been simplified to the point that the explanation being offered isn't true.

I guess what I'd really like is an explanation of MWI that actually ties the math and the explanations together closely. (I think that I'm expressing myself poorly, so I'm sorry if my point seems muddled, but I'd actually like to really understand what Eliezer seems to find so obvious.)

Comment author: byrnema 18 August 2009 12:23:24AM *  2 points [-]

I think that the many world hypothesis is aesthetic because it doesn't break symmetry. Suppose that in some set-up a particle can move down one path to the right or another path to the left and there are exactly equal probabilities of either path being taken. Choosing one of the paths -- by any mechanism -- seems arbitrary. It is more logical that both paths are taken. But the two possibilities can't interact: two different worlds.

In the world we experience, objects do occasionally move to the right. If there is not an alternate reality in which the object moved to the left, eventually, with either that object's movement, or the object that pushed it, or the object that pushed that, and so on, you have to explain how symmetry was ever broken in the first place.

Physicists don't like spontaneous breaking of symmetry. So much so, that the idea of many worlds suddenly seems totally reasonable.

Later edit: This is similar to the argument Eliezer made, in more detail and with more physics here.

Comment author: shirisaya 18 August 2009 03:13:57AM 0 points [-]

In my understanding, what you have presented is an argument for why MWI is interesting (is has strong aesthetic appeal) and why it's worth looking into seriously (it doesn't seem to have spontaneous breaking of symmetry).

What I'm looking for is a compilation of reasons that I should believe that it is true, basically a list of problems with other interpretations and how MWI fixes it along with refutations of common objections to MWI. I should also note that I'm explicitly asking for rigorous arguments (I actually am a physicist and I'd like to see the math) and not just casual arguments that make things seem plausible.

Comment author: shirisaya 17 August 2009 08:16:25PM 1 point [-]

On the issue of many-world, I must just be slow because I can't see how it is "obviously" correct. It certainly seems both self consistent and consistent with observation, but I don't see how this in particular puts it so far ahead of other ways of understanding QM as to be the default view. If anyone knows of a really good summary for somebody who's actually studied physics on why MWI is so great (and sadly, Eliezer's posts here and on overcomingbias don't do it for me) I would greatly appreciate the pointer.

In particular, two things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around are: -If multiple worlds really are "splitting" from our own how is this accomplished without serious violations of mass and energy conservation. (I'm sure somebody has treated this somewhere since it's so basic, but I've never seen it.) -Even assuming everything else is fine, the actual mechanism for which world diverge has to be spelled out. (Maybe it is somewhere, if so please help me end my ignorance.)

I'll admit that I haven't actually spent a great deal of time considering the issue, but I've never come across answers to basic questions of this sort.

View more: Next