Comment author: MrMind 19 November 2015 08:56:38AM *  2 points [-]

Everything Lumifer said, plus this: all this marketing/anti-marketing drama seems to be predicated upon the notion that there exists a perfect rational world / community / person. No such thing though: LW itself shows that even a rationalist attire is better than witch hunting (the presupposition of course is that LWers have rationality as their tribe flag and are not especially more rational than the average people).

Comment author: signal 19 November 2015 01:46:53PM 0 points [-]

I do not think that there exists a perfect rational world. My next article will emphasize that. I do think that there is a rational attire which is on average more consistent than the average one presented on LW and one should strive for it. I did not get the point of your presupposition though it seems obvious to you, LWers are not more rational?

Comment author: Lumifer 19 November 2015 04:42:33AM 12 points [-]

I am not sure of the point here. I read it as "I can imagine a perfect world and LW is not it". Well, duh.

There are also a lot of words (like "wrong") that the OP knows the meaning of, but I do not. For example, I have no idea what are "wrong opinions" which, apparently, rational discussions have a tendency to support. Or what is that "high relevancy" of missing articles -- relevancy to whom?

And, um, do you believe that your postings will be free from that laundry list of misfeatures you catalogued?

Comment author: signal 19 November 2015 01:36:41PM *  0 points [-]

I am not sure of the point here. I read it as "I can imagine a perfect world and LW is not it". Well, duh.

No. I think all the points indicate that a perfect world is difficult to achieve as rationalist forums are in part self-defeating (maybe not impossible though, most also would not have expected for Wikipedia to work out as well as it does). At the moment, Less Wrong may be the worst form of forum, except for all the others. My point in other words: I was fascinated by LW and thought it possible to make great leaps towards some form of truth. I now consider that unwarranted exuberance. I met a few people whom I highly respect and whom I consider aspiring rationalists. They were not interested in forums, congresses, etc. I now suspect that many of our fellow rationalists are and have an advantage to be somewhat of lone wolves and the ones we see are a curious exceptions.

There are also a lot of words (like "wrong") that the OP knows the meaning of, but I do not. For example, I have no idea what are "wrong opinions" which, apparently, rational discussions have a tendency to support. Or what is that "high relevancy" of missing articles -- relevancy to whom?

High relevancy to the reader who is an aspiring rationalist. The discussion of AI mostly end, where they become interesting. Assuming that AI is an existential risk, shall we enforce a police state? Shall we invest in surveillance? Some may even suggest to seek a Terminator-like solution trying to stop scientific research (which I did not say is feasible. Those are the kinds of questions that inevitably come up and I have seen them discussed nowhere, but in the last chapter of Superintelligence in like 3 sentences and somewhat in SSC's Moloch (maybe you find more sources, but its surely not mainstream). In summary: If Musks $10M constitute a significant share of humanities effort to reduce the risk of AI some may view that as evidence of progress and some as evidence for the necessity of other, and maybe more radical, approaches. The same in EA, if you truly think there is an Animal Holocaust (which Singer does), the answer may not be donating $50 to some animal charity. Wrong opinions: If, as just argued, not all the relevant evidence and conclusions are discussed, it follows that opinions are more likely to be less than perfect. There are some examples in the article.

And, um, do you believe that your postings will be free from that laundry list of misfeatures you catalogued?

No. Nash probably wouldn't cooperate, even though he understood game theory and I wouldn't blame him. I may simply stop posting (which sounds like a cop-out or threat, but I just see it as one logical conclusion).

Comment author: ChristianKl 18 November 2015 11:23:27PM 6 points [-]

Selfishness: A rational agent will not post information that reduces his utility by enabling others to compete better and, more importantly, by causing him any effort unless some gain (status, monetary, happiness,…) offsets the former effect. Example: Dating advice. Better example: Have you seen articles by Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk?

Do you honestly think that Musk who gives his competitors his patents for free holds something back in the way of writing articles because he fears people will compete with him?

Musk doesn't advice other people to copy him because he lives a life that includes 80 hours of work per week that he isn't really enjoying. It also doesn't leave him with time to write articles.

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 11:42:17PM *  0 points [-]

I do agree. The point was originally "selfishness or effort" which would have avoided the misunderstanding. I think for Musk, the competitive aspect is definitely less important than the effort aspect (he is surely one of those persons for whom "the value of time approaches infinity"). However, I doubt that Musk would give away patents if he didn't see an advantage in doing that.

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 08:29:22PM 9 points [-]

As soon as I have two Karma points, I will post a 2000 word article on bias in most LW posts (which I would love to have your feedback on) with probably more to follow. However, I don't want to search for some more random rationality quotes to meet that requirement. Note to the administrators: Either you are doing a fabulous job at preventing multiple accounts or registration is currently not working (tried multiple devices, email addresses, and other measures).

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 10:19:59PM 3 points [-]

Thanks. It is now online in the discussion section: "The Market for Lemons."

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 08:29:22PM 9 points [-]

As soon as I have two Karma points, I will post a 2000 word article on bias in most LW posts (which I would love to have your feedback on) with probably more to follow. However, I don't want to search for some more random rationality quotes to meet that requirement. Note to the administrators: Either you are doing a fabulous job at preventing multiple accounts or registration is currently not working (tried multiple devices, email addresses, and other measures).

Comment author: entirelyuseless 18 November 2015 02:52:00PM 2 points [-]

I suspect the polymathwannabe is referring to the ancient custom of war where after defeating your enemy, you go around and kill all their babies and their males, and take their women. Of course, that has nothing to do with religion one way or the other.

Regarding ordinary infanticide, that was also an ancient custom, approved e.g. by Aristotle. The practice had nothing to do with religion but had practical motivations. Areas that converted to Christianity put a stop to it.

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 07:16:04PM 0 points [-]

Jane Goodall has some interesting oberservations regarding infanticide among chimpanzees in her book "Through a Window." While chimpanzees will attack females that are strangers to a group violently, their infants will only, and in rare instances, die as casualties, but not be directly attacked. Infanticide within a community has only been observed in a few cases and all perpetrated by the same female individual and her daughter. However, she concluded from their behavior that their reason lay solely in the meat of the hunted infants.

Comment author: AABoyles 21 October 2015 07:20:58PM *  8 points [-]

Nobody wants to hear that you will try your best. It is the wrong thing to say. It is like saying "I probably won't hit you with a shovel." Suddenly everyone is afraid you will do the opposite.

--Lemony Snicket, All the Wrong Questions

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 06:46:46PM *  1 point [-]

The Hollywood version of that is quite popular, sounds less rational though.

Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and f* the prom queen. --Sean Connery, The Rock

Comment author: [deleted] 18 November 2015 12:38:19PM 2 points [-]

I like the concept of "main" for exactly the same reasons. However, it seems like most people who would post longer, more-referenced material are no longer contributing here. Indeed, even detailed discussion posts are now rare; most content now seems to be in open threads.

This dwindling content can be seen most clearly in the "Top Contributors, 30 Days" display. At the time I write this there are only seven posters with > 100 karma in the past 30 days, and it only takes 58 to appear on the list of 15. Perhaps the question should not be whether the content of LW should be reorganised, but whether LW is fulfilling its desired purpose any longer.

As nearly all the core people who worked the hardest to use this site to promote rationality are no longer contributing here, I wonder if this goal is still being achieved by LW itself. Is it still worth reading? Still worth commenting here?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Open thread, Nov. 16 - Nov. 22, 2015
Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 04:40:18PM 1 point [-]

LW does seem dying and mainly useful for its old content. Any suggestions for a LW 2.0?

Comment author: gwern 18 November 2015 03:23:39AM 8 points [-]

I was amused to see both modafinil and nicotine pop up. I guess I should feel proud?

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 04:08:41PM 0 points [-]

You should. Just started playing with those gums.

Comment author: Lumifer 18 November 2015 03:58:15PM 3 points [-]

You just wrote "I despise you" in many words.

So what? LW isn't a "safe space".

Comment author: signal 18 November 2015 04:05:13PM *  5 points [-]

That may be the case. But even Lukeprog preferred to be given feedback in a nice wrapping, because after all we are still primates and will appreciate it more.

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